The Poll: Allow E.S. or disallow ?

[Christian Ney]

What about ratail chips recognized as ''ES'' by CPU-Z even if they are and that this is a know issue like for CPU-Z 1.58 and AMD's FX-8150.

Same Chip, same system, same OS:

cpuz 1.58: shows ES

cpuz 1.58.7: shows retail

cpuz 1.59: shows retail

 

 

But unfortunately cpu-z 1.58.7 was on the wrong usb drive, so the validation has been done with 1.58 (that shows ES) and the CPU died, so no validation with cpuz 1.58.7

[Massman]

As I pointed out before disallowing ES (at hwbot and competitions)

 

... you ... can ... make ... ES ... look ... like ... retail ...

 

Does everyone understand that the our entire knowledge of the ES sample is based on the "(ES)" indication in the CPU-Z software application? That's the ONLY clue we have when it comes to detecting ES in screenshots ... even FM links don't say ES or not.

 

Okay, if you understand this, then ...

 

Do you guys remember that AMD has made HIGH-LEAKAGE ES samples look like retail in CPU-Z?

 

Okay, if you remember this, then ...

 

1) We can only detect "ES" with CPU-Z

2) You can make CPU-Z see "non-retail" as "retail"

 

=> Remove ES = ???

 

We rely on CPU-Z to detect ES or not. Therefore, if CPU-Z says ES it's ES.

[Christian Ney]

We rely on CPU-Z to detect ES or not. Therefore, if CPU-Z says ES it's ES.

 

when from a version of CPU-Z to another, CPU-Z change his mind, what to trust then ?

[hokiealumnus]

Wait, so ES chips are not allowed at the bot, period?

 

Could you link to the rule that says that? I spent quite a bit of time looking around for that before submitting 3960X results and saw nothing of the sort.

[Massman]

It was stated in the Rev4 plans thread, but it seems that it has not yet been added to the rules page (although I recall refering to it specifically).

 

The rule is that ES can only be used for points if you're in the Pro OC League.

[hokiealumnus]

It was stated in the Rev4 plans thread, but it seems that it has not yet been added to the rules page (although I recall refering to it specifically).

 

The rule is that ES can only be used for points if you're in the Pro OC League.

 

Yea, might be a good idea to put that there.

 

Heh, guess I get my chance to see how (poorly) I stack up against the pros. The request didn't confirm submission, so if you'd be so kind, please move me over. I want to help my team and can't afford to replace ES with retail for no other reason than that, so I can pretty much only submit for points to help my team in the Pro league.

 

Thanks.

[IanCutress]

Yeah so I haven't read 29 pages worth of comments. But there's more things maybe not be under consideration here:

 

a) Just because you have an ES, doesn't mean you have an unlimited supply or can get more. People who work at manufacturers may have more of a supply, rather than reviewers who only get a single ES CPU which is as near retail as you can get. If a reviewer who is also an overclocker got an 3960X for the SNB-E launch, or an SB/FX-8150 for that launch, s/he's going to use that to bench with. And then again some of them never touch this 'sub-zero' or whatever. Straight into Pro-OC league, or case-by-case basis?

 

b) Your rule states if you ever use an ES you move? So Tapakah's 990X score means he'll be moved? Or is it only current gen ES? Have to be specific here.

 

c) Overclocking events with AMD/Intel reps. If they provide a bunch of CPUs for team members to have a go (and they all happen to be ES), does all the team have to move to Pro OC?

 

d) Does this cover more than CPUs - memory, motherboards, GPUs? Again, it's best to be completely explicit in declaring rules.

[K404]

I thought the rules were clear enough?

 

Latest-gen ES = Pro League.

 

The 990X is now last-gen, thats why Sam posted the result when he did

 

 

 

There has to be some way of separating the Pros from the self-funding masses and, I suppose, it reduces the appeal of spending a LOT of money buying black market ES without a warranty. IMHO, HWB did about the best job they could have in terms of giving an enforceable rule in regard to ES.

 

If someone is given any number of latest-gen ES (1 or 100) by a company, they are CLEARLY in a better position than the self-funding majority...... especially if its chip thats capable of getting global scores

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one question I do have is..... if a user is moved to the pro league for using ES, can they move back when the ES becomes last-gen?

Edited November 29, 2011 by K404

[knopflerbruce]

It would be silly if someone used a Celeron D ES and had to move to the pro league because of it. That said, if we want to keep the engineering sample style competition out of the XOC league, then allowing GT's isn't a wise idea, so perhaps counting generations of HW is not that clever.

[dumo]

It all boils down to 3960Xes @ $1045 each.....ES or retail

[hokiealumnus]

Just to be clear, for my part I'm perfectly fine moving to Pro. I benched an ES, want to submit it and that's the price I pay. As long as I can still score points for my team, that's my only concern. I don't mind being what I think will be the next-to-last-place Pro as long as the team doesn't suffer.

 

I thought the rules were clear enough?

 

Heh, it can only be clear if it's a rule. If you can show me it somewhere in the rules, I'll be happy to help diagnose whether it's clear.

[K404]

Just had a quick look and didn't see anything about ES..... BUT.... I am JUST out of bed.

 

For staff: Were ALL the rules copied over the Rev 4?

[hokiealumnus]

Just had a quick look and didn't see anything about ES..... BUT.... I am JUST out of bed.

 

For staff: Were ALL the rules copied over the Rev 4?

 

It was not placed in the rules. I looked high and low for it before submitting ES results and it is nowhere to be found. It's buried somewhere in a thread. Rather than spend who knows how long looking through that thread I'll trust Massman.

 

It was stated in the Rev4 plans thread, but it seems that it has not yet been added to the rules page (although I recall refering to it specifically).

 

The rule is that ES can only be used for points if you're in the Pro OC League.

 

After his post, my question was rhetorical. Sorry if it caused you to waste any of your time actually looking for it.

[Christian Ney]

Edit:

 

it Was Stated In The Rev4 Plans Thread, But It Seems That It Has Not Yet Been Added To The Rules Page (although I Recall Refering To It Specifically).

 

The Rule Is That Es (actual/next Gen) Can Only Be Used For Points If You're In The Pro Oc League.

[Morphling]

This discussion is nonsense. Is there here any brilliant mind who can tell me that an ES CPU can't be counted on OCLeague\Enthusiasts league or whatever because it's diferent from a retail CPU? On what? An ES model is absolutly equal to a retail CPU! This just doesn't make sense.

 

An ES CPU is a "tester" from intel. A model of a future reatail CPU, which is completly equal to the retail models!! The only diference between them is that they can be lessoptimized then the retails!

 

This is not OC spirit guys Instead of not alowing this, let's try to fight for example, cheating on benchmarks, or something that is not related with economy

 

Cheers to all!!

 

André Mesquita

 

P.S.- I don't have access to ES samples, at least for now, but I wish I could!!

[Leeghoofd]

Older ES are allowed for all. New generation ES is only for Pro league benchers... no need to comment again, rules have been set...

 

And ES is not always equal to retail model... eg some have unlocked multies etc..

[GENiEBEN]

Is there here any brilliant mind who can tell me that an ES CPU can't be counted on OCLeague\Enthusiasts league or whatever because it's diferent from a retail CPU?

 

Dunno, perhaps some unlocked multi samples or even bugged multi

[knopflerbruce]

And "980X" A0 ES chips were NOT equal to retails (2.4 and 3.06GHz stock speeds vs 3.33 for 980x retail) - for example. Plus, engineering samples often have different revisions from retails, which is also something that separates them from the ones you find in stores.

 

I think it's fair to do it this way, it separates the sponsored guys from the average overclockers, which is what we want to do anyway. If you have access to a bunch of current generation ES chips, then you belong to the pro league anyway.

 

One thing i wonder is if you get like an IB ES now, but no such ES when next gen is here (IBE). Could you ask to be moved back to the OC league when the new chips are launched?

[Hondacity]

once you go pro, you should be stuck there lol

[Mafio]

And "980X" A0 ES chips were NOT equal to retails (2.4 and 3.06GHz stock speeds vs 3.33 for 980x retail) - for example. Plus, engineering samples often have different revisions from retails, which is also something that separates them from the ones you find in stores.

 

I think it's fair to do it this way, it separates the sponsored guys from the average overclockers, which is what we want to do anyway. If you have access to a bunch of current generation ES chips, then you belong to the pro league anyway.

 

One thing i wonder is if you get like an IB ES now, but no such ES when next gen is here (IBE). Could you ask to be moved back to the OC league when the new chips are launched?

 

you can buy "current generation ES" on ebay.

so having an ES CPU doesn't make you a sponsored guy.

[knopflerbruce]

That's true, and I know it. Most engineering samples don't end up on ebay, though - that's just a few of many.

 

I'm pretty sure that most people who used 980x engineering samples before SB was released didn't get them from ebay.

[dinos22]

This discussion is nonsense. Is there here any brilliant mind who can tell me that an ES CPU can't be counted on OCLeague\Enthusiasts league or whatever because it's diferent from a retail CPU? On what? An ES model is absolutly equal to a retail CPU! This just doesn't make sense.

 

An ES CPU is a "tester" from intel. A model of a future reatail CPU, which is completly equal to the retail models!! The only diference between them is that they can be lessoptimized then the retails!

 

This is not OC spirit guys Instead of not alowing this, let's try to fight for example, cheating on benchmarks, or something that is not related with economy

 

Cheers to all!!

 

André Mesquita

 

P.S.- I don't have access to ES samples, at least for now, but I wish I could!!

very much the case

[sin0822]

once you go pro, you should be stuck there lol

 

is it just me or is there a lot less people to get ahead of in pro? Sure they might be harder to beat, but they are fewer in numbers, so at least you'll be in the top 100 lol, even if you are last.

[Leeghoofd]

Good Tip Sin : so to all boost your ego by just going pro...

 

In my case I go up 200 spots