DrWeez Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 No... it's PRO Cup which is supposed to have some prices and we have to buy dedicated hw for stages, it is a show "which should bring new blood in OC Community". ES Haswells are much much better (QE6H) than retails and can't be bought, so I vote to ban them, I don't see those ES Haswells to bring more blood in OC Community, I see the opposite. How does your ES clock? Quote
Xtreme Addict Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 I am not sponsored OCer, I don't get ES cpus, I even can't buy them... Quote
knopflerbruce Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 From what I recall, anything "pro" means ES = allowed. This place is also the only one where those chips can be used - you're in enthusiast or Xtreme league, they're not allowed. We cannot ban those from ALL competitions. Quote
SF3D Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Word PRO does not directly mean that ES samples are allowed. In old PRO OC league ES samples were allowed as that was meant to be completely open field for world records without limitations. Now we have this best league ever which should bring new people in to overclocking and be more interesting than nothing else before, so is ES really the best way to go? Pro gaming is huge nowadays and there is several reasons for that. OC can never compete with it, that is a fact. Idea of this league was to make overclocking more popular and interesting or make it as large as possible in other words. If you allow ES samples it would be same as pro gamer could use godmode in games while competing "hey, there are no walls at all". I have been talking this same kind of league crap year after year in here and it never makes any difference Quote
FireKillerGR Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) I dont have an ES and cant find one aswell. Edited June 7, 2013 by FireKillerGR Quote
rbuass Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) 100000000% agreed SF3D. I still not understand why Hwbot can accept something that is not available to all... just is UNFAIR... We need to give same conditions to everybody... If ES is not allowed in MOA, GOOC, general competitions, need to be banned. This is a old discussion... so... let the privilege guys that get free ES samples compete and take advantage... And... let stupid ideas that ES is the same than Retail ... those kind of things let me wish to leave the league. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=247632#post247632 Edited June 6, 2013 by rbuass Quote
Bobnova Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 ES aren't any more or less available to me than Titans or EPowers are. Ban them too? Ban the 780 as well, as it requires an EPower, which cannot currently be bought. Quote
K404 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) So....here we are, back once again in the situation of complaining because ES is better than retail and we want to push them out of overclocking because "normal people" cannot get them. One day, maybe people will start listening to me, but I am going to ask a question (maybe two) and I want (interested) people to answer, truthfully and think BEYOND their own situation and think about more people than just themselves and their own rankings. That condition is VERY important. Do we want to see the best scores possible with the best hardware that exists, or do we only want to see the best scores if we think we can beat them? I honestly see early Haswell ES as no bigger problem than ePower. I have neither, but I don't mind that some people do, because it shows us the best possible scores. I'd rather ban ePower than ban cherry ES. The best CPU installs in a board just as easily as a bunny one. Edited June 6, 2013 by K404 Quote
Bobnova Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 For the top, "Pro" ranking: Best scores possible. I see no reason for anything short of that. There are divisions for "Best I Can Possibly Beat" after all, like the one I inhabit generally. Quote
Massman Posted June 7, 2013 Author Posted June 7, 2013 Let's jump in this thread and say you also have to vote beta bioses out because those are technically engineering versions too. Single GPU has been transformed into "mainstream dual gpu" - cost for VGA should be about the same. ES Haswell is of course more than allowed. Quote
Bobnova Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 We need to ban the NDA OC Guru, AB, Precision, and so on too of course Quote
knopflerbruce Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Let's jump in this thread and say you also have to vote beta bioses out because those are technically engineering versions too. Single GPU has been transformed into "mainstream dual gpu" - cost for VGA should be about the same. ES Haswell is of course more than allowed. Exactly. And: The main problem seems to be the availability, not the beta/not released part. In other words: we have to ban rare retail hardware, too. If you're looking for Corsair GTX series modules... good luck! I seriously believe you have a better chance finding Haswell ES than some of those models:p I bet this applies to most really high binned kits today. When hardware is produced in a very low quantity, they're not available to anyone. Even ASUS Ares or Mars series are EXTREMELY difficult to get hold of, so in reality we'd have to demand like a minimum of... 5000-10000 samples before we can allow those parts - if the goal is that everyone interested in competing has a fair chance at getting at least one sample, assuming they have the $$$ to begin with. Personally I don't care if these things are included in the Pro Cup or not - but they should have a place here, and then we need a league/cup where those rare ones are allowed. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 We need to ban the NDA OC Guru, AB, Precision, and so on too of course Yes, and I'm pretty sure that those who complain about ES and not these "secret" software releases have access to at least one of the utilities:p Quote
rbuass Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 To compare EPower... that needs effort and risk to kill a videocard to a CPU that is only to put into the socket is totally non sense... Also to compare software with hardware. If is different, why its not allowed in MOA, AOOC, GOOC???.... is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all. If in the competitions: Not allowed: hardware sharing, engineering samples, Lucid Virtu MVP and hardware that is not commercially available at the beginning of the competition. Shoud be now allowed ... that's my opinion, and I did not disrespect nobody, only bring a question I believe is important and must be changed. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 "is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all." - this is the key point - it applies to certain retail parts, and software. Why just limit the discussion to ES CPUs? Quote
Mikecdm Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 100000000% agreed SF3D.I still not understand why Hwbot can accept something that is not available to all... just is UNFAIR... We need to give same conditions to everybody... If ES is not allowed in MOA, GOOC, general competitions, need to be banned. This is a old discussion... so... let the privilege guys that get free ES samples compete and take advantage... And... let stupid ideas that ES is the same than Retail ... those kind of things let me wish to leave the league. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?p=247632#post247632 I still don't understand why you can't accept that life isn't fair. You complain about every single thing that doesn't work in you favor. Then when you continue to post impressive results, despite all odds being against you, you make a sob thread to show how you persevered adversity. Quote
rbuass Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) I still don't understand why you can't accept that life isn't fair. You complain about every single thing that doesn't work in you favor. Then when you continue to post impressive results, despite all odds being against you, you make a sob thread to show how you persevered adversity. Mate... I am not complaining... this issue was not bring by me (just read posts before mine). Also I've been working lots of times without ES parts... I am just talking that ES hardware is not available for all... also... is not allowed in competitions (for sure... AOOC, MOA, GOOC and so on have their reasons)... so.. I believe it shoud be not allowed. About this: "Then when you continue to post impressive results"... never used ES parts in that results. To be more clear and logic, if its not allowed to the main competitions, must be not in Pro Cup (in my point of view) I did not miss education or be rude with nobody. Edited June 7, 2013 by rbuass Quote
rbuass Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 "is not about to be better or no... is about to not be available to all." - this is the key point - it applies to certain retail parts, and software. Why just limit the discussion to ES CPUs? Because anyone can get Bioses, Afterburner Extreme and so on... and it's shared also in Hwbot.... also because it is free for all... nobody need to pay for a Bios, afterburner, precision and so on. Quote
Mikecdm Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I never said that you are rude or disrespectful. You may not see it, but I believe that many people perceive your posts as whining. Whenever there is a rule or competition that does not benefit you, you always try to have rules changed so that they do. In the end, whether or not the rules changed, you never disappoint. All of your results end up being top notch. Not so long ago, you were saying something about how difficult it is to get titans in brazil and next thing you know, you had a titan. You don't like es chips because you can't get them. I can't get them either, but I'm not complaining. The idea of "pro" was for those who work for vendors and have unlimited access. You chose to compete against the best, despite not having the same manufacturer support. Now you want rules to change because they don't work in your favor. You signed up for this. You knew what you were getting into. In this thread alone you have questioned the all out stages, using xeons for cinebench, and now es chips. Quote
rbuass Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Man... regardless to be or not to be allowed, I always will bench what I want. If I don't like or don't agreed Xeons Multi CPUs... simply, did not benched them.... and you can be sure the most of overclockers did not agreed the same. The Titans... How long did you not see any result of me with a Titan? The only complaining about Titan is about it highest price... The thing you told I am complaining, is because I don't understand why there are no single GPU stage (that is present in ALL competitions)...but Full Out Titans. The ES chip issue was not bring by me... and I do not open a thread complaining but as a pool... I told in the thread that I must be wrong... and would like to see how the most of overclockers are thinking. The way you expose, is shows a non real point of view that it's not whining, but talk about a fact that important overclockers are talking about... even before my post. I am leaving this topic.... this is no more my question... I bring what I thing is more fair and more competitive to all.... I don't mind... you can keep this way you think is better... and let the things keep the same (... the reason hwbot removed the Pro Overclockers ranking). Best wishes for all. @Mikecdm FYI, I don't ask to go to Pro League after they removed the ranking... I was forced to do it... I believe was been better to me, to keep in XOC League. Edited June 7, 2013 by rbuass Quote
Bobnova Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Anybody can get software? I've had exactly zero luck in finding the proper software for the SOC cards. Gigabyte isn't very forthcoming on that one. Quote
Xtreme Addict Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Software is easy, you can always ask some good guys for a copy About SOC - depends from the series, most of SOC need really crazy vmods because of shit controllers used, or only ES cards have software voltage control (like SOC 5870 - additional Winbond controller for VGPU). SOC is different league - GB is not doing anything to make those interesting for OCers in my opinion. But there are Lightnings, there are Matrix, DCU2... ES cpus are something different than Epowers, Epowers can be bought, soon new batch will be for sale. Moreover, if you have enough knowledge, you can create yourself separate PWM from some dead GPU or even something like Hipro5 created, ddr maximizer We can't make our own CPU. I have nothing agaist ES if they are like retails, but not GT A0 history again. Show us some good retails and everyone will stop whining or if there aren't any, ban ES Edited June 7, 2013 by Xtreme Addict Quote
K404 Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Software is easy, you can always ask some good guys for a copy ES cpus are something different than Epowers, Epowers can be bought, soon new batch will be for sale. Moreover, if you have enough knowledge, you can create yourself separate PWM from some dead GPU or even something like Hipro5 created, ddr maximizer We can't make our own CPU. I have nothing agaist ES if they are like retails, but not GT A0 history again. Show us some good retails and everyone will stop whining or if there aren't any, ban ES Is it a bit weird that you are ok with allowing the thing that you have access to and can use, but want to ban the thing you don't have? Quote
Xtreme Addict Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Is it a bit weird that you are ok with allowing the thing that you have access to and can use, but want to ban the thing you don't have? Epowers could be bought from EVGA EU Store some time ago, it was the fault of OCers who hadn't bought it cause they preferred Lightnings. Those were retails. Moreover, EVGA soon will sell new batch of much more powerful and those also will be in EU shop from what I know. It's not the same. Moreover, in GPUs you can always try to play with Lightnings (like 780 GTX which maybe can reach Titan), so it's not that you have totally no choice. Second thing is that for Epower... you need to have skills, courage and will to mod the card, total noob won't do it. With CPU you only put it in the socket. Epower is some kind of hardmod, we can't ban hardmods cause those are impossible to track. We can't mod CPU to be a better... But we can track in CPU-Z if CPU is an ES or not. I only want to see some good results with retails, and if they are okay, ES are fine for me. I know that there are guys who tested 100+ retails now... Edited June 7, 2013 by Xtreme Addict Quote
K404 Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Both come down to money, nothing else. If I offer enough money, I will get my cherry ES and that will get me better global scores in 3D01/05/06/AM3 than 100 ePowers. Plus, as long as I don't kill it, I can sell it and get most of my money back. No-one is gonna say that about a global GPU that's been e-Powered, or zombie'd in any way. You are completely right, we can't track voltmods. a simple VR and two wires or.... Tin-level Zombie. I think a 4th league would help solve this, but HWB DO need more rules & guidelines for Pro Cup (IMO) Quote
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