HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[Leeghoofd]

a simply possibility to avoid hw-sharing is the indication serial of the hardware (for example with a picture)

 

That will not correct the wrong done...

 

I can give you 10 serials if I go to my local shop... and ask to take some snapshots... even bills...

 

 

It's not only what they think, it's what both parties think !!! and how we can improve things...

 

Sniff the fresh air, free your mind !!

 

Do I look like I'm the kind of person who has ever gotten good hardware for free? All of the hardware I've ever gotten has been either bought at a reasonable price or traded for other hardware of equal value, except for a netbook I got for free once. That netbook wasn't a golden sample either. If I did participate in hardware sharing I'd at least have some global points by now.

 

Regardless of the current rules, the basic idea of not allowing hardware sharing seems flawed. Overclocking is based just as much on what hardware you have as it is the skill you have to overclock it. Not just how well the CPU/GPU clocks, but the motherboard, ram, cooling, etc. You have to have the knowledge for what parts to get and where to get them as well as the cash to pay for them. If you have the knowledge to get them temporarily from someone without paying anything, then good for you. That's your advantage. Chances are though if you aren't paying for it then you don't have the hardware to back up a golden CPU/GPU then you aren't going to have the right hardware under or on top of it anyway.

 

I've yet to hear any good reasons to prevent hardware sharing other than "What about people who don't get hardware" and "Go buy your own".

 

It's against the ten commandments of HWbot... what more reason do you want ? If you want to play the game, play it by the rules laid down !

 

For your pleasure here's the thing :

 

4. Lending hardware, hardware sharing, score sharing/selling/buying

 

This in a delicate subject as we have to trust on the honesty of those participating at the HWbot that they are indeed using their own hardware and not sharing a golden sample CPU or VGA card.

Lets start with what is allowed to be shared: everything except:

 

- VGA may not be shared for 3D Benchmarks

- CPU may not be shared for 2D Benchmarks

 

 

this is one of your previous quotes

What do you guys not like about hardware sharing anyway?

 

Reading that, would make me believe you would give ya supercard to some team member and say bench it so we can boost the Teams score... No more morals required then !!! Rules what Rules ?

 

I can see no reason why you even want to defend the thing we all want to get rid off...

 

there a very few people that benefit form manufacturing input so why do we care what they think?

 

Isn't somebody in your own team , calling every XXXX motherboard the new golden egg ? is that "the" way to approach stuff ?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Leeghoofd

[K404]

The hardware most likely to be shared is the cherry stuff and it gives an unfair advantage to whichever team gets it.

 

Gigaboost and his 5870...... if he was on a team and hardware sharing was allowed as you suggest, the ranking would be taken over by ONE (maybe two) cards

 

Is that fair?

 

Worse still is when a CPU + GPU combo start to shine at an event and 3-4 guys take a result each at the same time. Thats demoralising. "Beaten" "4 times" by 1 setup.

 

 

How can you support that?

[chew*]

Duke;71494']What you want a confrontation? That wasn't what i was saying at all. See your reading into something that wasn't there. Sort of like the statement you made "I don't think you would want that to happen". You see how that goes? End of discussion. Plz get on topic. BTW everyone on my team told me to edit that post because it insinuated without pointing a finger in any way. Like yours did.

 

Massman' date=' my apologies for the trash. It won't happen anymore.[/quote']

 

This will be my last response to "you guys"

 

Your statement was what it was, Kal has obviously offered you legal advice that what you did was incriminate yourself with a possible pre med charge. To late its quoted for life.

 

As far as confontation? if thats what you call it, I prefer a chat or pow wow. It's less incriminating, take that from a guy who had a long vacation and studied criminal law while on it.

 

 

Back on topic.

 

The splitting of teams sounds like a very logical and interesting solution per classification.

 

Going to UFL would suck for me due to not having unlimited ln2 or funds for unlimited ln2 on hand, but me being in the next class down with "sponsored hardware" would make those people unhappy nor would i do that but hey the new rules are not going to make EVERYONE 100% happy.

Edited September 19, 2010 by chew*

[kikicoco1334]

hmmm... i ..

[KONAKONA]

The hardware most likely to be shared is the cherry stuff and it gives an unfair advantage to whichever team gets it.

 

So what's an unfair and fair advantage then? The best hardware gets the best scores and people are going to seek out the best hardware. The same thing goes for tweaks, the best ones get the best scores. Why do you think PURE is around? Are we going to ban tweak sharing next because that's an "unfair" advantage to the people who know the best ones?

 

Also, it might be one of the so called 'commandments', but as others have noted hwbot probably isn't going to be the only game in town much longer the way rev4 is looking.

[Christian Ney]

I have read the all thread, when I started there were only 22 pages. When i finished ... 32, lol.

 

I will not reply for all of you, massman already done this good, thank you massman and good to see you ignored people.

 

Now the point is team ranking right ? the rest of the rev.4 looks very good:

 

Thinking about it I am agree with this ranking rev, first of all because for exemple imagine :

A team named "8800 team"

200 members and everybody has got a 8800 or shared a 8800.

even if you are 200* in the rank (3dmarks aquamark) you get 20 pts, x 6 (as there is 6 bench)

so the team total point will be : 200 x 6 x 20, which is 24 000 pts only with one card.(no one of course it hasnt been shared for all 200 members). There is going to be 200 8800 Gtx in that case. Maybe with sharing only 50.

with 24000 pts your are easy on the way to be 1st.

Against team that are benching a lot of differents cards/cpu.

 

Something has to be done here, and its what rev.4 is going to do. JUSTICE/EQUALITY.

-Team global Ranking( like global member ranking )

-Team Hardware Ranking( like hardware Master )

 

 

Try to think, use your brain before posting and if there is a fight, go on PM, your are polluting the thread

 

PS : The website is working very good and very fast on the iphone, good job

Edited September 19, 2010 by Christian Ney
PS

[Patch]

Actually read all 32 pages before posting. Whew.

 

Please don't replace "BOT" with "OVERCLOCKING" in my following words. They are distinct.

 

1) Please stop saying that people should be benching for fun and not points. All of us do. But we SUBMIT OUR EFFORTS TO THE BOT FOR THE POINTS AND THE COMPETITIVE SPIRIT. Benching and friendships will still happen with or without the bot.

 

2) I see why the single team score for a bench will decrease hardware sharing (or at least the significance of it), but it will be at the price of decreasing team significance AT THE BOT. If that's what the bot wants, then so be it. What the bot does won't impact my relationship with an awesome group of folks I call my team.

 

3) I suck at overclocking. But I like trying. And I like freezing stuff. And I like soldering stuff. But I don't want to do any hardware reviews or schmooz manufacturers. I'll continue to buy my own hardware to kill as I wish. But I do like trying to beat the top guys. It's fun. While I once was bothered by "manufacturer support", lately I don't really care. Makes it more fun to try and beat people. But I DON'T like the idea of being "delegated" to the minors.

[El Gappo]

Can you add an extra feature that allows us to download all our screen shots and images to make the transition to a new benching site easier?

________

Cum Down Throat

Edited May 13, 2011 by El Gappo

[Bobnova]

On the splitting of the leagues:

 

Am i the only one who actually likes competing against the top10/20/50 despite having cheap hardware?

I take great delight in the fact that I've posted higher HW scores then a couple of the top guys i know personally. Both of whom would be in UFL. I, of course, am far from UFL material (no gtx here, juuust got my first 920).

 

Same goes for air/water cooling vs extreme, and dice vs ln2. I love beating LN2 on dice. On air/water i loved beating SS and low end dice.

 

 

 

Will the hardware and the global points be separate for XOL and UFL? Or will UFL submissions still show up on the overall hardware rankings?

 

 

 

 

What about a ranking system that mirrors euro football? Top X people in XOL every X months get promoted to UFL, and the bottom X of UFL get dumped down again?

How much hardware are the manufacturers willing to cough up? If being in the UFL automatically gives perks, a stratification system like this could work really well.

You could even take it further, if you wanted. Have UFL (premiership), XOL (Football League Championship), AOL(lol... Football League One). It'd take a while to get from AOL to UFL even with high end hardware and massive skill, but is that an issue?

I'd do seperate "global" type points for each league.

The Hardware Boints i would leave exactly as they are, covering every league. AOL people's 980x submissions right along with UFL submissions.

 

 

If the UFL is small enough it could be demanded that there be video of every run, including a shot of the GPU/CPU during setup. Livestream allow saving entire multi-hour videos, and because they're sitting on livestream's server they cannot be edited to swap other cards into place.

Downside would be that some poor guy has to check all the videos, and it's more of a pain for the bencher as well.

 

 

Please excuse confusion and rambling on my part, i'm short on sleep, have a head cold, and have two young kids. And cats. And lots of other excuses.

 

 

 

Final note: I think that moving in the direction rev4 moves in could be a very positive thing, given enough communication and common sense on the parts of ALL parties involved (users, staff, manufacturers, in no special order).

Wild accusations and name calling render no positive results for anybody.

[chew*]

But I DON'T like the idea of being "delegated" to the minors.

 

Patch you do know that the delegation is user side, We are all EL and XOL default. You can choose UFL user side if you wish to compete there.

 

No one is being forced there, No one is being told they can't compete there either.

[romdominance]

Actually read all 32 pages before posting. Whew.

 

Please don't replace "BOT" with "OVERCLOCKING" in my following words. They are distinct.

 

1) Please stop saying that people should be benching for fun and not points. All of us do. But we SUBMIT OUR EFFORTS TO THE BOT FOR THE POINTS AND THE COMPETITIVE SPIRIT. Benching and friendships will still happen with or without the bot.

 

2) I see why the single team score for a bench will decrease hardware sharing (or at least the significance of it), but it will be at the price of decreasing team significance AT THE BOT. If that's what the bot wants, then so be it. What the bot does won't impact my relationship with an awesome group of folks I call my team.

 

3) I suck at overclocking. But I like trying. And I like freezing stuff. And I like soldering stuff. But I don't want to do any hardware reviews or schmooz manufacturers. I'll continue to buy my own hardware to kill as I wish. But I do like trying to beat the top guys. It's fun. While I once was bothered by "manufacturer support", lately I don't really care. Makes it more fun to try and beat people. But I DON'T like the idea of being "delegated" to the minors.

 

Very articulate brother Patch.

[Gautam]

I don't really get what's going on, but, it seems like hwbot rev4 means more fighting. More fighting means more drama. More drama means more entertainment ftw.

 

(Who doesn't like reality TV?)

[steponz]

Either way Ill bench... Seems like it could be interesting...

 

Not sure about the whole one score per team.. if it really ends up being a problem, then wait til rev. 5 or 6..

 

I am affraid that it might discourage users from posting there scores.. Hard to say though..

 

Will the leagues be combined for teams?

Meaning LN2 and AIR/Water be on the same team.. and will they have the same point structure?

 

Maybe I missed something... Didn't read through the whole thing...

 

Either way... Keep up the good work... its definitely a stressful thing.. but I see its for the good of the oc community in general...

 

Keep clocking brothas!

[steponz]

One more thing... Why not adjust the point structure to encourage benching of other benchmarks...

 

Right now benching the new ones.. doesn't give any points... We put alot of effort in our benches.... with the little time some of us have...

 

Why not give more points to encourage the benchmark?

 

Example.. Memory Clock...

Top guy gets no points.. I bet it was fun as hell to bench that.. why not reward it.. I think we could get more benching by doing this... Just an idea..

 

seperating cpu 3d benching could be good also..

 

Keep it up...

[Gomeler]

I don't really get what's going on, but, it seems like hwbot rev4 means more fighting. More fighting means more drama. More drama means more entertainment ftw.

 

(Who doesn't like reality TV?)

 

You have a very good point. I now support HWBOT Rev 4

[Brian y.]

*disclaimer*

Yes I read this whole god forsaken thread....

 

 

All I can say is that I would like to see a beta version of how it would work and look. As for the single point submission for best HW per team....At the moment I don't think that the initial trade off for trying to eliminate HW sharing is worth what is lost from the concept of everyone being able to help the team anyway possible(yes I understand the whole process of it as it would enlarge the HW category by forcing a larger variety of hw onto the bot which is great in it's own right)but this is something that while I understand why it is being implemented IMO I am not sure if it is in the best interest in regards to growing the Team aspect of the community. This is one of the main reasons why I would like to see a beta version when possible:)

(btw, everything else looks fine)

 

 

 

: off topic :

I understand why HWBOT is going in the direction it is but at the same time I really wish HWBOT would consider Oh god dare I say it,

a Pay to play league.

 

The league is getting so much bigger and yes it is important to involve the manufactures as I understand what Massman is trying to do. Understanding HWBOT itself is going to require funding in order to continue to maintain and keep up with the ever growing popularity of overclocking as it continues to evolve and mature it would only make sense that the community of people that use the site help support the site/league that we participate in. It will speed up many aspects of the site and also supplement any short falls that may be experienced with any lack of manufacture support. I mean it's great to get the manufactures to support the site but to let them be the sole financial backbone of HWBOT is also something that could cause much greater unwanted issues down the road. I know what you said in regards to them funding and not influencing the site but this would help greatly in keeping any possibility of something like that ever becoming a potential reality.

 

Look Massman, I understand why you thought that the community should not have to pay in the beginning but at this point in time with as much as that has been done and how much HWBOT has already given to the community over the years it is only fair that we give back. It's time for a change...... I mean we have gone through multiple revisions of the BOT, don't you think it's time you accepted a revision?

[Gautam]

Brian, you're just not thinking hard enough. Televised caged deathmatches OCA members vs XS members (Splave gets to take on two), and hwbot's financial woes will be a thing of the past.

[chew*]

Hmm Brian brings up a very interesting note.

 

Picture this scenario, hwbot is fully supported by manufacturers. So shares in a company say its split like this MSI,ASUS,GIGA all equal 33.3%

 

Well eventually they decide they want to change something, mind you hwbot with all new features and funding is running full tilt. Hwbot staff disagrees, Oh really? your cut off.

 

Flatline....................

 

So why not have the endusers donate I dunno say we PAY to PLAY and fund 60% or even 51% whatever it needs to be so that the OVERCLOCKERS have the majority vote over the manufacturers. If a manufacturer decides to leave HWbot hanging because they want to go down a path the STAFF does not think is right, worst case at this point your at least running on life support till necessary cutbacks/changes can be made.

 

I think bottom line the fear of the manufacturers in the end having full expense thus in a way full control is a valid fear indeed.

[Booj]

I have no problem paying for a subscription to the bot.

 

Massman can you provide some clarification on the submissions/time provision from page 5 of the ppt. My understanding of that is that weighting goes down over time to prevent easy hwpoints by benching old cards with new cpu's.

 

For example in 06 480gtx at 1300/1200 and 980x at 6ghz scores a lot of hwpoints now, but as submissions decrease with 480 over time, hwpoints will score less?

So a 2015 cpu can't come in and clean up all the hwpoints in cpu limited 3d?

 

Personally I don't have a problem with this as the effort and skill required to score top points in the heyday of the card deserves reward, but I do forsee a lot of guys being annoyed with it.

 

CPU's and 2d are a bit different as they are limited to a platform that won't improve in performance over time. I think the guys pushing older platforms in 2d shouldn't be hurt by that provision.

 

I'd also like to see a beta with the new points algorithm to see what effects it will have.

 

At the end of the day any changes will affect everyone and we will learn to adapt like we all did with rev3.

[Massman]

We've had the donation button up for so long now ... what we have incoming is appreciated, but it doesn't even come close to covering even the server costs. It seems that a situation of mass-hysteria has been created (i also sense some team moderators are making their team go nuts) and this for no apparent reason.

 

As said, I'm not going to ask the community for money. You can all use this service, but you're not paying for it. Manufacturers are using YOUR results (no matter where you post them, by the way) for marketing and research, ergo they should be the ones paying for the development. Very simple.

[Massman]

Can you add an extra feature that allows us to download all our screen shots and images to make the transition to a new benching site easier?

 

Yeah we have that.

 

"right-click" and "save".

[Leeghoofd]

Actually read all 32 pages before posting. Whew.

 

1) Please stop saying that people should be benching for fun and not points. All of us do. But we SUBMIT OUR EFFORTS TO THE BOT FOR THE POINTS AND THE COMPETITIVE SPIRIT. Benching and friendships will still happen with or without the bot.

 

 

That's a nice twist of words... I meant : don't forget it's not all about points ! ( as you also posted it's about friendship, being part of a community )

If I read some posts : the fun factor seems to be missing for some people... it seems hardcore bussiness that doesn't allow any modifications or not even the will to try a change !!

 

Seems it's benchteck bye bye then... I'll miss some of you...

 

I'd also like to see a beta with the new points algorithm to see what effects it will have.

 

At the end of the day any changes will affect everyone and we will learn to adapt like we all did with rev3.

 

Yep, that's what I've been repeating over and over again. Judge it till we get a teaser like we did with Rev3... Think a mega snowball effect is in action... some forget to think rationally

Edited September 20, 2010 by Leeghoofd

[Bustah]

T

 

Seems it's benchteck bye bye then... I'll miss some of you...

 

 

 

 

because one person asks for ss downloads you include the whole of benchtec? nice deduction sherlock lol./

[Leeghoofd]

Seems to me there's a lot of negativity within, hope you can prove me wrong... till now you and kenny seem to give it a go... for better or for worse...

Edited September 20, 2010 by Leeghoofd

[Bustah]

Seems to me there's a lot of negativity within, hope you can prove me wrong...

 

why are you singling out benctec? how do you come to that conclusion? people have opinions and they are entitled to them, they also have feelings, some guys will be upset over some of the changes its inevitable when they spent years building a team.

 

I don't think you have the right to be taking peoples inventory singly or as a collective do you? maybe its you that needs to think before you speak, take your own advice.

 

anyway im not here to argue with you or anyone else, just putting the record straight.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Bustah