HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[Massman]

If you see yourself as UFL

Hwbot is some how going to stop you from taking the prize home if you win first place in a live comp....ie: MOA, GOOC. Run by and paid for from someone other than hwbot, ie: MSI and Gigabyte

 

Also on that note, part of the prize is flights etc to the finals.

 

Sorry, you're right on that. I don't have powerpoint on this laptop, so couldn't change it.

 

The idea of not giving prizes to people who get hardware is similar to what GBT did in the H55N: it's already a prize that you get the free hardware to bench. People who spend money to buy the card should be the ones getting the prizes.

 

For MOA/GOOC there's no advantage of getting free hardware since everyone starts from the same level: hardware received on competition. Therefore, it's not problem for UFL to get prize money in that competition.

 

Sorry, I should've changed it .

[Massman]

Sounds good Just to make sure i understood that correct: It would be a league like the current just without the global points? Every point would count?

 

Yeah.

 

Kinda defeats the 'making hardware sharing non-beneficial', though.

[|ron]

Mmmh... the main concern here is that non-ln2 people will not contribute to the team total...

So, Why don't count towards the team total, the best score and the best score "ambient temp".

So, inside each team, there will be ln2-guys (in our team, we have 4 or 5 small subteams with ln2, dewar etc...) who "compete" for the best score, and the other guys who compete for the best "ambient temp" score.

What do you think about that guys?

[uncle fester]

Wow so many people are hating on this new rev, i think maybe it is because they do not understand it fully. I love it well done HWBOT

________

Toyota S Transmission

Edited February 28, 2011 by uncle fester

[uncle fester]

Alienation leads to separation, these ideas are bad imo. the community is speaking but not being heard. why on earth would any user be in a team when He cant contribute to the teams scores in whatever category? if johnny and mark each have a 5870 and belong to the same team johnny gets a better score because quite simply His card clocks better...mark still spent hundreds of dollars and spent countless hours trying to get a great score but his efforts are fruitless in terms of the team, mark now feels quite deflated because he was UNABLE to contribute to the team he love/d so much pre rev4.....but Mark can continue to add to his own total [outside of the team]....Johnny feels kind of good about himself because he got the best score, but feels kind of bad about his buddy mark who now benches mostly alone aside from the fact that it costs a small fortune to get together to bench.

 

this is how I envision the whole thing going if rev 4 is implemented. if this whole idea is about finance and getting money from corperations to keep hwbot alive, there has to be another way......after all corperate support is not what made hwbot in the first place the guys who spend countless hours benching did! please do not alienate these people for example saying something like we wont have a poll because some folk don't have a proper grasp of English is very patronising. Let the people decide.

 

I'm personally very saddened by these proposed changes and even more saddened that it looks like its already set in stone.

 

this is our proposal

give us your opinions

no you cant vote because a small minority may not fully grasp the English language?

eer so why are we discussing it?

why are we here? .....because we are not all there.

 

Seriously do you think that someone in your team is going to be broken hearted because his points did not contribute to the team ??? I think he would be proud of what he achieved for himself same as it is now. He will get his points it just will not reflect to the team, it will be same for every team on hwbot therefore it will be fair??

________

XK120

Edited February 28, 2011 by uncle fester

[uncle fester]

Wow, with the two things above, why would anyone want to list themself as UFL.

 

I can see this becoming bigger than any hardware sharing accusations.

It will be..

"he shouldn't be in XOL, he should be in UFL"

 

Well thats where people who are seeded need to make the right choice, i will jump straight into UFL if it is offered, i receive hardware from manufacturers - sure no where near as much as many people but i think that is the purpose of this people do not like it when someone was given a mobo and another had to pay for it.

________

PORTABLE VAPORIZER REVIEWS

Edited February 28, 2011 by uncle fester

[True Monkey]

First sry for my bad english

 

i Think this is the wrong way.

Teamwork is now all members check Cards and CPUs and when the found a verv good exemplar the will send it it to the member with the best sys and and most Chance to make the highest Score with it.

 

Now a Team only need one good System for the Team to make Teampoints and a lot of "scouts"

 

That have nothink to do with a Team

[K404]

I fully believe HWB staff did discuss this before you posted.... i'm surprised that some of the plans for Rev4 got as far as this.

 

(Maxi)

One would think that would be the case, and one would also be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ummmm..... would I be right in saying this idea doesn't even have the full knowing and agreement of HWBs own staff?

[Leeghoofd]

So? That's the reward of getting good hardware and being kind enough to share it. Too bad if you don't have it, deal with it.

 

I think you never read or understood the rules. It's due to this sharing attitude that we are now ending up with a pilestack of new rules. And now you start to complain ? (I only quoted this post, your other post is even more obvious of rule violation)

 

 

 

I hope they can work out the coding and give us a preview of what's gonna really happen. Think many will see the light through the trees... I doubt it's as black and white as some think...

 

First sry for my bad english

 

i Think this is the wrong way.

Teamwork is now all members check Cards and CPUs and when the found a verv good exemplar the will send it it to the member with the best sys and and most Chance to make the highest Score with it.

 

Now a Team only need one good System for the Team to make Teampoints and a lot of "scouts"

 

That have nothink to do with a Team

 

What's the difference, you are saying twice the same... so you all gather hardware. And then send it off to another user to bench with it for the team ? If I may be so inpolite to ask :Who get's the credit ?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Leeghoofd

[rbuass]

I think Hwbot can simulate the new Rev. 4 and show us the result of the new revision...

Will be many more easy to understand, and to judge.

[websmile]

Seriously do you think that someone in your team is going to be broken hearted because his points did not contribute to the team ??? I think he would be proud of what he achieved for himself same as it is now. He will get his points it just will not reflect to the team, it will be same for every team on hwbot therefore it will be fair??

 

You seem to underestimate the thought of being part of a team and achieving a goal together- being consequent your thoughts as well as the new rules may as well end up in abolishing the team ranking- that would be more honest- so let the games for the big egos with lots of money continue- just at the next level:D

[Bustah]

Seriously do you think that someone in your team is going to be broken hearted because his points did not contribute to the team ??? I think he would be proud of what he achieved for himself same as it is now. He will get his points it just will not reflect to the team, it will be same for every team on hwbot therefore it will be fair??

 

that all depends how you as an individual feel about your team or where you place the importance of that balanced against you as an individual. personally I do this for me and my team.

 

brokenhearted is not the word I used, I said 'deflated' ...of course He will, as things stand he has a tangible way of seeing how his efforts contribute to His team, these proposed revisions [on a team level] are going to leave people feeling they are running up a hill backwards. more to the point they are going to feel restricted in regard to the hardware they use for team contributions, because johnny already has a cherry picked/ binned whatever you want to call it cpu or gpu. those kind of limitations in regards to TEAM motivation will inevitably lead to members feeling on the outside looking in or like cheerleaders at a game they have no real way of playing in? even a blind man could see that.

 

If you honestly think this would be a good idea then fair play to you I can respect that, but I believe the contrary.

A lot of folks took a hit when rev3 came in, but at least they had the chance to redress the balance and recoup there losses, this proposed revision will not give them that opportunity [in relation to team contributions]

 

As for the concern over hardware sharing goes....anyone who shares hardware knows they do it, imo that is their punishment, they know they cheat any glory for them is synthetic and they know it. they have to go through life knowing they are fake.

[Hyperhorn]

1. Why are people claiming excessive hardware sharing would benefit the team? I don´t know if I am living in a parallel universe, but as a team capitain of the most active hwbot team all I can say is, that excessive hardware sharing is not an easy way to climb up the ranking, but a very dumb idea whicht might lead to a team ban. So if you want to damage and annihilate a team - go on with sharing and be happy about your "achievement" when the time has come.

 

2. Why do some guys bring up the example "10 GHz i7-980X + 4x GTX 480 @ 2.000/2.000 MHz will be shared and rule the ranking" (yeah, as you might notice I changed the achievable frequencies to a insolent level, so it´s more frightening, isn´t it?) again and again and again? Does this happen/did it ever happen? Did I miss the super-duper-cherry-picked cheater-team you´re talking about? Can you atleast provide a link to the hwbot news about the ban of such a team or - in case hwbot staff didn`t notice what you clever conspiracy theorists already noticed - provide a dozen of links to the mentioned shared scores based on super-duper-cherry-picked hardware? No? Ok, then please stop inflame people`s opinions with ridiculous horror scenarios ...

 

3. Live competitions should not have an impact on any Hwbot ranking. Promote it, link to it, upload a tons of pictures, but please do not let it influence the ranking. May I remind you that there are cases of live competitions, where the competition holder wasn´t even able to count the points together and called the wrong winner? Or may I remind you, that there were competitions, where the winner did even offend against official hwbot rules because "it wasn´t against the explicit rules of the competition"? I remember even hwbot staff members offered criticism about it, so please think about it again if external (= supervised by a partner, but not Hwbot!) events should have influence on the hwbot rankings.

 

4. What about not "making hardware sharing non-beneficial" but "making hardware sharing less beneficial, but still encouraging the grinders on 2nd/3rd/4th etc place"? What do you think about a scalable formula which reduces the points added for the team ranking, but doesn´t work like a binary system (simplified: hero or zero). If the winner contributes all points, could #2 mabye contribute 50 % and #3 25 % etc.? You could even limit the maximal amount, e.g. 1/3 of all points available in the specific hardware category or link the percentage to the points gathered by the team`s #1 in this category. So if your #1 gets 10 points, #2 results can only add 5 points to the team result, but if #1 gets 20 points, #2 can add 10 points already. There are a lot of possibilites here to find a balanced middle course. Hardware sharing is a problem, but as already explained by others it is rather a problem on individual basis not on a team basis (reason included in 1. - read again if necessary)

 

5. Is it possible to get a own sub-forum for team captains and hwbot staff only? Everytime there´s a new thread about major changes it gets interrupted by offtopic spam or whiners, who seems to not even understand the topic they`re whining about and afterwards it is very difficult to get back to a respectful and constructive discussion. The team captains do represent their team, so they really know what`s going on there. In this sub-forum they could summarize the feedback they get from their team members and act as a speaking trumpet (notice: There are intelligent team members who talk a lot about Hwbot in their own team forums, but are not able to express their thoughts in English - just an example). Plus you could create votings there and the team captains would act like electors of their individual communities/teams: This way you could even ensure that smaller teams attract attention. This does not(!) mean team captains should tell Hwbot staff what to do, but it might solve the problem about less popular votings (team captains have to be interested in all hwbot-related, otherwise they don´t deserve their status) and back-up the staff decissions, especially when it comes to fine tuning issues. Sub-forum can be public (but read-only for non-captains obviously) if the remaining team members want it to be public IMHO.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Hyperhorn

[Leeghoofd]

2. Why do some guys bring up the example "10 GHz i7-980X + 4x GTX 480 @ 2.000/2.000 MHz will be shared and rule the ranking" (yeah, as you might notice I changed the achievable frequencies to a insolent level, so it´s more frightening, isn´t it?) again and again and again? Does this happen/did it ever happen? Did I miss the super-duper-cherry-picked cheater-team you´re talking about? Can you atleast provide a link to the hwbot news about the ban of such a team or - in case hwbot staff didn`t notice what you clever conspiracy theorists already noticed - provide a dozen of links to the mentioned shared scores based on super-duper-cherry-picked hardware? No? Ok, then please stop inflame people`s opinions with ridiculous horror scenarios ...

 

 

Dunno If you are adressing to one of my posts...

 

FYI : I never said the hardware was shared, I just mentioned they had several scores that gave them a big boost (till everyone else started benching GTX 480 cards too... ) and easily asswhooped us in the rankings...

 

I kindda like your thoughts behind topic 4 in ya post. Plus maybe indeed it's better to have a private forum for Team Captains and the Staff to work out things more in a more relaxed private environment...

[BenchZowner]

2. Why do some guys bring up the example "10 GHz i7-980X + 4x GTX 480 @ 2.000/2.000 MHz will be shared and rule the ranking" (yeah, as you might notice I changed the achievable frequencies to a insolent level, so it´s more frightening, isn´t it?) again and again and again? Does this happen/did it ever happen?

 

I'm pretty sure at least some Team Pure members are and will be more angry at me anytime soon, but it's not my fault, I'm not the one who did stupid things.

By the way, I have nothing against Pure as a team and of course nothing against Vince or some of their members, but I do have quite a lot of things against some of their members.

Those who think that I'm working on a personal agenda, just wait & see.

 

On topic now Hyperhorn...

Three names ( maybe there's more to it, I need to do some more google-cache-digging & proof ):

 

Andre, Nick, Jody.

[BenchZowner]

I kindda like your thoughts behind topic 4 in ya post. Plus maybe indeed it's better to have a private forum for Team Captains and the Staff to work out things more in a more relaxed private environment...

 

Don't discriminate people.

That's a very bad idea.

[Leeghoofd]

Just to work out general stuf Bill, then it's up to the Team captain to distribute the gathered info back to the team members. Then feedback back to the HWbot staff. Just as it works in real life...

Thing is the thread get's derailed far too quick by some... (intentional or not)

[Deanzo]

I'm pretty sure at least some Team Pure members are and will be more angry at me anytime soon, but it's not my fault, I'm not the one who did stupid things.

By the way, I have nothing against Pure as a team and of course nothing against Vince or some of their members, but I do have quite a lot of things against some of their members.

Those who think that I'm working on a personal agenda, just wait & see.

 

On topic now Hyperhorn...

Three names ( maybe there's more to it, I need to do some more google-cache-digging & proof ):

 

Andre, Nick, Jody.

 

Bill,

 

You obviously know far, far more than me, and I'm a member of Pure.

If you can show me right now (you must have something or you are all BS) where Andre, Nick and Jody are cheating on Hwbot.

 

I don't want to see cheating going on as much as the next guy, in my team or others.

 

If anyone is angry at you, it is your fault, you are calling members cheats yet post no proof.

 

Link me to the scores in the database that are cheated now, no more BS...show me the proof.

[Christian Ney]

Bill,

 

You obviously know far, far more than me, and I'm a member of Pure.

If you can show me right now (you must have something or you are all BS) where Andre, Nick and Jody are cheating on Hwbot.

 

I don't want to see cheating going on as much as the next guy, in my team or others.

 

If anyone is angry at you, it is your fault, you are calling members cheats yet post no proof.

 

Link me to the scores in the database that are cheated now, no more BS...show me the proof.

 

Have already been deleted, banned(the discussion was closed after FM LOOC incident)

[|ron]

Guys, Bill, can you please talk about that in another topic... here it's already a complicated situation to talk about, if we start talking about OT things, I think we're going straight in a "flame discussion"

 

I'm quoting myself... it seems that a lot of people is concerned about contributing to the team without having access to ln2 cooling... so under here is my proposal.

Is it worth a try, is it BS, what do you think about?

 

Mmmh... the main concern here is that non-ln2 people will not contribute to the team total...

So, why don't to count, towards the team total, the best score and the best score "ambient temp".

So, inside each team, there will be ln2-guys (in our team, we have 4 or 5 small subteams with ln2, dewar etc...) who "compete" for the best score, and the other guys who compete for the best "ambient temp" score.

What do you think about that guys?

[pro]

uh CMON guys, stay on topic here,

 

Anyone that says either Jody or Nick have cheated in any way, and infact also Andre, you better have some proof..

 

OKAY andre gave out a score to someone, he shouldnt have done that, but lets discuss what this topic is for, hwbot changes..

[Deanzo]

Sorry guys,

 

I don't mean to go on about it.

 

 

But what the hell, Bill can just put it out there and get away with it, and then we just have to move along.

Some will read that BS and think it's true.

 

Jody is sooooooooooooooo good at HW Sharing with Nick, he hasn't even post a score with a 980X or a 480 LOL

http://hwbot.org/community/user/3oh6?tab=submissions

[Bulshooter]

That was not the right way.

Because the little Bencher who not Bench with SS or LN2 become 0 Points for the Team and than they have no fun to Bench.

[BenchZowner]

Bill,

 

You obviously know far, far more than me, and I'm a member of Pure.

If you can show me right now (you must have something or you are all BS) where Andre, Nick and Jody are cheating on Hwbot.

 

I don't want to see cheating going on as much as the next guy, in my team or others.

 

If anyone is angry at you, it is your fault, you are calling members cheats yet post no proof.

 

Link me to the scores in the database that are cheated now, no more BS...show me the proof.

 

Trust me, I have all the proof you need.

 

I won't spill the beans now though.

 

If you want a hint, W3570

[Deanzo]

No more posting in here.

 

Start a thread now, and post the links, how hard is that.

I don't need hints, I want hard proof. show me the links.

 

Edit and Ps: I can't see any scores for a W3570 posted by Jody ever.