DopeLex Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Want to ask it again, thought that someone and me asked it some sites before, would it be possible that we can again see the whole hardware-points on the user-profile-page (like in Rev.3)? That would be great, it's a little bit nerved and circuitous to look always in the hardware-masters-ranking list to see, where you are. Besides the ranking is only updated once a day i think. Quote
Hondacity Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 "about HWbot" should include: revision number ie 4.0.1 last revision date: june 1, 2011 Quote
Dualist Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Just a small thing, there is no longer a link at the top of the forum to take you back to the hwbot home page like there used to be. Can you add it again please. Quote
IanCutress Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) With the new league separations, where does 'chilled water' come in, i.e. chilling it with a Hailea (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2010/07/20/hailea-hc-500a-water-chiller-review/1) to about 6C? Will I get bumped from the Enthusiast to the Overclockers league? Some of us can't compete with Siberean and Nordic 'ambient' temperatures Edited July 2, 2011 by borandi Quote
Mr.Scott Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 With the new league separations, where does 'chilled water' come in, i.e. chilling it with a Hailea (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2010/07/20/hailea-hc-500a-water-chiller-review/1) to about 6C? Will I get bumped from the Enthusiast to the Overclockers league? Some of us can't compete with Siberean and Nordic 'ambient' temperatures Excellent question. IMO, water is water. Proving the temp is impossible. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 But then, a water chiller uses a compressor, which means it should be classified as phase change cooling. At least from my point of view. Quote
IanCutress Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Well it depends how you're separating the leagues. Above zero C and below zero C? Or ambient and below ambient? The ambient way gives a distinct advantage to our Nordic neighbours. How about if I flood the room with a few air conditioners - if I do that however, does that also count as phase change cooling? There needs to be a distinct ruling on the severity of how it is cooled. You're not going to get liquid water below zero without some severe atmospheric pressure change, so in my mind as long as it is water cooling the CPU, then it's still classed 'enthusiast'. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Read my lips.......You Can't Prove The Temperature. Air is air no matter the temp, water is water no matter the temp. Edited July 2, 2011 by Mr.Scott Quote
Christian Ney Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 You use air to cool the water that cool the cpu/gpu Ok I ->[] Quote
TaPaKaH Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 You can pull your pot to -190 and then stop pouring. Technically, your rig will be air cooled Quote
Guest Ximi Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Well it depends how you're separating the leagues. Above zero C and below zero C? Or ambient and below ambient? The ambient way gives a distinct advantage to our Nordic neighbours. How about if I flood the room with a few air conditioners - if I do that however, does that also count as phase change cooling? There needs to be a distinct ruling on the severity of how it is cooled. You're not going to get liquid water below zero without some severe atmospheric pressure change, so in my mind as long as it is water cooling the CPU, then it's still classed 'enthusiast'. +1 I live on Spain at Mediterranean East , and here it's hot hot and the water cooling is diferent from Nordic users. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 I ran a chiller once, got -30c idle on it - not pure water, used some sort of alcohol I think it was. Still water cooled:D Quote
IanCutress Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 used some sort of alcohol I think it was. Still water cooled:D Perhaps you worded that incorrectly, but Alcohol != water. CH3COOH != H2O. With that logic I could use cooled acetone, which has a melting point at around -78C. Alcohols are just other chemicals, like phase changing gases are other chemicals. Blends of miscible liquids are a different thing to consider, which I think is what you're on about. Mixing water with ethanol produces different freezing temperatures: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethanol-water-d_989.html Question is, what % water comes under 'water cooling'? >99%? There's no way to prove. However, the amount of people who would go to those lengths without going DICE/SS/LN2 will be minuscule. Quote
Massman Posted July 3, 2011 Author Posted July 3, 2011 Make a choice and you'll see how the community responds. In my opinion, the enthusiast league is a league for those who are interested in hardware, but do not go extra lengths to improve their score. It's not a league 'of cooling', but a league 'of intention'. Imho, everyone who's voltmodding their card, everyone who's considering fiddling with the temperature is already being extreme about overclocking. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Perhaps you worded that incorrectly, but Alcohol != water. CH3COOH != H2O. With that logic I could use cooled acetone, which has a melting point at around -78C. Alcohols are just other chemicals, like phase changing gases are other chemicals. Blends of miscible liquids are a different thing to consider, which I think is what you're on about. Mixing water with ethanol produces different freezing temperatures: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethanol-water-d_989.html Question is, what % water comes under 'water cooling'? >99%? There's no way to prove. However, the amount of people who would go to those lengths without going DICE/SS/LN2 will be minuscule. But if I use some sort of mix, it's still water, to some degree. People use all sorts of additives anyway... Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 3, 2011 Crew Posted July 3, 2011 Then you can start to discuss the users that use an Airco to get them little mhz extra out of their GPUs. Pretty hard to prove if they used it or not... plus it uses a compressor too doesn't it A phase change unit is a phase change unit, a watercooling loop at no matter which liquid temps is a watercooled loop... how many will use chilled water ? How many will change the fluid to the special ones that work well beyond sub zero... Plus if you want to be on top you know what to use... Defining sub and positive temps ain't gonna work either as some will always abuse the system... IF you are honest then it won't be aproblem at all, sadly not everyone is like that... Quote
IanCutress Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 IF you are honest then it won't be aproblem at all, sadly not everyone is like that... This is the biggest point, well made. OK so the question then becomes - if I used chilled water (at above 0ºC, no blends) and am completely open about it, how many people would have an issue if I stayed in the Enthusiast League (my main argument being able to compete against the Nordic ambients)? Quote
Dualist Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) I reckon if the whole cooling unit (chiller) attached uses a compressor then it's classed as phase. AC on an air rig is still air cooled as it's not attached as it's blowing on it (and it's the only way you'll compete with the Nordic guys). But if chillers are allowed in the water cooling league (enthusiast) even though when they go real cold they don't contain water then why not include cascades.? I condense gas to a liquid and when it hits my block (evap) it's still liquid (but boils off in there), bascially the same thing Chillers = phase.... end off. If you don't like it then man-up and move up to be classed in the Overclockers league. A lot of guys have been asking and pushing for a seperate league for air and water for years on here and they have it and you want to spoil it for them. For some it's they only way they can push what they have, mainly beginners. I see that this way they will be mergin the leagues as it will be too much of a gray area. Enthusiast league... just air and water (if you bench outside then good for you). Overclockers league... chillers, tec, + everything else. Edited July 3, 2011 by Dualist Quote
Chiller Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Chilled watercooling is submitted to water category, because you also still use a waterblock on you're cpu, like a normal watercooling setup. only the means of HOW the water is cooled is different. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 I believe this whole issue was already brought up before the changes were made, was it not? I also believe the outcome was as it stands now because there was no possible way to prove actual temp. Why are we beating this dead horse again? Quote
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