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M.Beier

Computex 2017, reflections on oc community

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Hi lads,

Hope this critism will be taken positively and somehow turned to add-value instead of just going in defensive.

 

I've been an extreme overclocker in the past, yet, its been forever since playing with LN2, in the past couple of months all I've done with OC is some 7700K and setting records with 1060 3GB - nothing spectacular, so, do I even have a saying?

 

I went to Computex with 5 other media guys, the team of 6 were covering Computex 2017 for the biggest online IT media of Denmark, not with focus on overclocking, yet, they were asking me a bit now and then considering the amazing show by G.Skill and GALAX.

 

So here is my 3 observations with sadness for this year.

Once again, pardon me being blunt about these things, they are not likely to suit hwbot very well.

 

Arrogance towards newcomers?

The day prior to Computex we went to collect our press badges, the first thing we saw when heading towards the escalator was a big banner for HWBot "8-17, overclocking gathering", they asked me if I was aware, I replied, yeah, I knew about that, and perhaps we could have a quick peak before heading to ASUS conference.

We collected our badges, enjoyed a quick view of TWTC from 2fl, all the work in progress, somehow always pleasing.

 

We then went to the room of HWBot gathering - there was a sign on the door stating one was to knock on the door.

So we did... 60 sec, no reaction.

Hard knock.. 30 sec, no reaction.

Then one of the lads opened the door, and out bursted a rep, stating it was a private event, NDA NDA, and we were definantly not welcome.

 

Having worked with the given person, I told the others not to take it harsh and it just came out a bit wrong - culture difference'n' stuff.... But everyone pretty much said "arrogant prick".

That wasnt exactly the best start of 'selling OC' to the press - very unfortunate that HWBot decides to make a banner where media picks up their badges, and then give such a welcoming - I'd say, don't advertise at the freakin' escalator if it is a PRIVATE SHOW.

.. Later (at a party one of the nights) discussing this with an extreme overclocker, Toolius, he said that not even he was welcome at the given event, despite having asked up front.

 

HWBot, for the community and users, or for the vendors?

I love ASUS, Gigabyte, ASRock (Yes even you Nick!), MSI doing extreme overclocking at Computex, and yes, fully aware that its in-house, thats cool - yet, ofc. GALAX & G.Skill bringing it to the actual show smokes the '4 mobo knights' - that being said, I admire the Helium shows that went down this year, though it would have been cool if ASUS had been more open about it.

What bothers me then? Well... WR WR WR, promotion in the name of HWBot, i7-7740K (and i9) is taking down lots of records, and that is just fine, but should it have its space on hwbot? No, I do not believe so.

Personally, I can hardly be described as poor, yet, I can't "pull an Andre", but if I could, how would I feel wanting to enter OC, bin 25+ 1080ti, bin 200 7700K and then more than 5 weeks before a new CPU hitting the stores it taking down all WR?

Honestly, I think its disrespectful towards the community and extreme overclockers that are not in-house clockers to allow even submitting none released hardware on the bot - its stupid that i7-7740K that you cannot buy, is allowed to posses the WR.

I think HWBot has to look inwards and remember where it came from - hwbot is pleasing the vendors these days, not the actual community nor the overclockers that want to get into the sport/hobby.

Yes, vendors finance and makes hwbot work

But would vendors be interested in doing so if there were nobody in the community?

 

 

Where is the community spirit?

As every year I made the thread up front about Computex 2017 on hwbot, we are not the biggest community around, but yet the one I enjoy the most (bromance ppl!), we shared information with one another about this years show, how to catch up, the go-to-places etc. yet, when push came to shove, what happend? Lots of overclockers prefered the "A-game" that they were invited to and felt exclusive about, sure thats ok - can't blame people for doing what they like, nor going somewhere they consider more fancy, but what I can scratch my head about (and this will be only direct person I highlight in the thread), is that Massman, being Mr.HWBot isnt more interested in socializing with the community and welcoming the newcomers that might show up at the events listed on the actual forum. I think that is very poor by hwbot, and def is something we should all work with.

 

Sell OC - sell it :)

OC is fun, its interesting, we are not in it for the money (which money*).

 

Pardon my long rant, and once again, hope its food for thoughts - I'd really like to see my hobby grow, we used to be bigger at exhibitions than gamers, thats long long gone - we used to be much superior to modders, thats also long gone, and whom are to blame? The vendors, or ourself for not being able to promote what we do?

*And once again - who the hell am I to judge? I went as press after all...

 

Finally, a big shout out to GALAX

Thanks for inviting me to GALAX OC night, despite I've been retired for a while, it is GREAT catching up with the community, and I enjoyed an awesome long chat with Pasi this year.

Edited by M.Beier
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Well Marc, the gathering was not private, but that was on friday-sunday. Too bad the people from Taitra still had the sign at the ground floor on monday, even though the gathering was over.

 

Monday that first secret event (you know why ofcourse) to allow the mainboard partners to show their high end gear. No media at al was allowed besides the ones from that particular processor company. Hence why the whiteboard was outside...

 

Similar to monday evening for the Helium event. A max amount of spots, determined again by the organizing partners. NDAs had to be signed...

 

I agree we are in need to make it as public as possible, but for the risk of leaks, things got really limited... and this is not always related to HWBOT.

 

Sell out... dunno, next year visit the HWBOT office and see all the luxury they are working in... you might be surprised...

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ya this community is not always easy to try and be a part of. The members pick and choose who they like and who they want to help and share stuff with. if you dont know every tweak you are just sort of thrown to the side and nobody cares. Even if you always share everything you know with everyone who asks (Even if you dont know a lot)

 

but I must say massman and hwbot have been really nice to me. I feel excluded by a lot of members more than hwbot itself.

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while I understand the sentiment of how do you compete with an unreleased processor and ES army....the answer is dont be in elite league if you feel bad about this. also companies bin hundreds on hundreds of cpus every generation this is not something new :D maybe people are just more open about it now.

 

Computex is a trade show, marketing is the reason it exists. We are lucky to even be deemed relevant to them at all, someday I figure we will no longer be invited. LN2 smoke and the term world record is something anyone is excited by and understands. They might not know what a 4200 point XTU score is but they understand what and XTU world record is.

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while I understand the sentiment of how do you compete with an unreleased processor and ES army....the answer is dont be in elite league if you feel bad about this. also companies bin hundreds on hundreds of cpus every generation this is not something new :D maybe people are just more open about it now.

 

I think an issue with that thinking is even if you don't compete in Elite League, you're still competing against them :P

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This rant is full of BS, I saw with my eyes the effort from PJ.

Go to piss your media BS on reddit. You don't give a damn about the community, are you just searching attention imho.

 

Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk

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I think an issue with that thinking is even if you don't compete in Elite League, you're still competing against them :P

Change hobby...

 

Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk

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I think an issue with that thinking is even if you don't compete in Elite League, you're still competing against them :P

 

ya but your ranking only competes against the extreme and not elite. So yes point total will be less but it's still a fair playing field in extreme. It's not like a couple extreme members will be using es in extreme.

 

It's just the points totals will be different, which actually makes sense. it's like the points naturally scale with league.

 

I definitely want to move back to extreme.

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Change hobby...

 

Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk

Hah I'm fine thanks.

 

ya but your ranking only competes against the extreme and not elite. So yes point total will be less but it's still a fair playing field in extreme. It's not like a couple extreme members will be using es in extreme.

 

It's just the points totals will be different, which actually makes sense. it's like the points naturally scale with league.

 

I definitely want to move back to extreme.

Not really, if some elite guys come in and beat some of my scores my ranking within extreme can change despite no one in extreme gaining points, I've purely gone down due to elite guys no?

 

I accept it, just pointing out why people moan every now and again, it's a bit like Manchester United playing in the same league as Southend United :P

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Hah I'm fine thanks.

 

 

Not really, if some elite guys come in and beat some of my scores my ranking within extreme can change despite no one in extreme gaining points, I've purely gone down due to elite guys no?

 

I accept it, just pointing out why people moan every now and again, it's a bit like Manchester United playing in the same league as Southend United :P

 

but everyone in extreme will go down also, if they have that score. so as long as everyone in extreme is in the same boat, I feel like it doesnt matter what goes on in the other boat, as long as we are all affected equally.

 

I dont know, it's just the way I try and look at it, but I do understand your point.

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say you are 13th and your friend is 14th and a new elite guy beats your score. you are 14th and your friend is 15th effectively not changing your rank within your league.

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What I see as a problem is the paper launch results here on hwbot and as spectacular as they might be, the LHe results. This practically kills ranking and competition, the paper launch results for weeks and maybe months, the LHe results partially for a whole gen because even top notch ocer have no access to it. Even if you have a better cpu due to binning your ass off or luck and are a better bencher (let´s play this simple and devlish) you will not beat some results on LN2 done on LHe. When top scores become unobtainable because vendors decide who gets the record this kills competition.

On the other issues, I wasn´t at computex, I understand nda and I will not comment on private impressions, but I would prefer to have a discussion without insults^^

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but everyone in extreme will go down also, if they have that score. so as long as everyone in extreme is in the same boat, I feel like it doesnt matter what goes on in the other boat, as long as we are all affected equally.

 

I dont know, it's just the way I try and look at it, but I do understand your point.

 

say you are 13th and your friend is 14th and a new elite guy beats your score. you are 14th and your friend is 15th effectively not changing your rank within your league.

 

But sadly due to the way the points work on hwbot, an elite guy could beat my 1st place hw score, so I lose points, and if the guy below me in the extreme rankings doesn't have a score for that hw, then I lose points, and could lose my position (in this example), and he won't lose anything :)

 

As I said I accept it, merely explaining what I meant :)

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I understand the frustrations with "paper launch", the "pre-QS" and liquid helium. It's definitely a talk worth having, but all I can say is that we're doing our best to influence the minds at (any) company in the direction of community support in addition to the industry support. As you can see from lost partnerships, we don't always succeed in that with everyone. But we're trying. :)

 

I know it's hard to see since most of this happens out of sight of the public eye. But I rather do this, and build stronger relationships from successful overclocking activities, than to rage in public and burn bridges. :)

 

Where is the community spirit?

 

Saturday Night, May 27th from 7 till 11pm. Guess who picked up that bill :rolleyes:

 

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attachment.php?attachmentid=5740&stc=1&d=1496716358

Edited by Massman

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Too bad the people from Taitra still had the sign at the ground floor on monday, even though the gathering was over.

 

Sell out... dunno, next year visit the HWBOT office and see all the luxury they are working in... you might be surprised...

 

Snipped two parts :)

First: Yes, I hardly think it was according to HWBots plan, however, it, in my book, is no valid excuse/push the responsibility.

First impression is outmost important - just a heads up (to hwbot) to be more aware of such in future

 

Second part, I meant as for strategy, I didnt say that HWBOT is swimming in money and luxorious, I admire the effort that HWBot does in general.

 

Computex is a trade show, marketing is the reason it exists. We are lucky to even be deemed relevant to them at all, someday I figure we will no longer be invited. LN2 smoke and the term world record is something anyone is excited by and understands. They might not know what a 4200 point XTU score is but they understand what and XTU world record is.

 

I respectfully disagree Splave,

I think you are underestimating the marketing value of overclocking, I also think you underestimate the appeal and 'understanding' of the sports effort by observers/bystanders.

 

Last year HWBot had the world tour at 'glass area' in Nangang, in my opinion, that was very exciting - same company asked us to cover a modding event, and I honestly don't think it can even be compared..

When HWBot challenge for 2 or 4 hours were kicked in, you see people going nuts, frustation peaking, shouting/burst from a few now and then because the hw is being a cunt...

At the casemodding competition this year, well, time started and half went for lunch, not exactly something to make the crowd consider it a hard competition.

 

- Also having spoken with multiple overclockers in elite, I def' don't think vendors considers the overclockers or community 'lucky to be a part'.

 

What I see as a problem is the paper launch results here on hwbot and as spectacular as they might be, the LHe results. This practically kills ranking and competition, the paper launch results for weeks and maybe months, the LHe results partially for a whole gen because even top notch ocer have no access to it. Even if you have a better cpu due to binning your ass off or luck and are a better bencher (let´s play this simple and devlish) you will not beat some results on LN2 done on LHe. When top scores become unobtainable because vendors decide who gets the record this kills competition.

On the other issues, I wasn´t at computex, I understand nda and I will not comment on private impressions, but I would prefer to have a discussion without insults^^

 

Well yes and no :)

I don't think cooling should be limited, though we all know that its not realistic to pull LHe as private bencher.

However, it is a bit of a punch to the groin that when a new flagship is launched, already from day -5 weeks(+-) the records have been set with LHe, and you will never be able to compete with the respective gear.

 

It IS in my opinion, vendors ruining the fun for the common and wealthy overclocker. My rant is also curiosity on what does the community want? At the moment I see it heading towards a dead-end, and thats why, bombastic as I may be - I make this thread which hopefully is food for thoughts despite some clown writing 'BS, reddit, BS, attention".

 

I understand the frustrations with "paper launch", the "pre-QS" and liquid helium. It's definitely a talk worth having, but all I can say is that we're doing our best to influence the minds at (any) company in the direction of community support in addition to the industry support. As you can see from lost partnerships, we don't always succeed in that with everyone. But we're trying. :)

 

I know it's hard to see since most of this happens out of sight of the public eye. But I rather do this, and build stronger relationships from successful overclocking activities, than to rage in public and burn bridges. :)

 

 

 

Saturday Night, May 27th from 7 till 11pm. Guess who picked up that bill :rolleyes:

 

 

PJP, glad you noticed the thread

First of all, the gathering on 27th, good deed by hwbot(and you)! Slightly chaotic as for when/where/attending, I wouldnt have been able to make it, but I actually did ask regarding the event, next year, would you mind keeping posted on the forum?

 

I am fully aware that hwbot is trying, yet, I am merely suggesting a bit more harsh approach, and also - as I also replied to Alby, curious on what the heck does the community desire.

Personally, I think the community is bending over way too much, and thereby harm itself and make it less appealing for people wanting to get into OC.

 

Final input for this round:

Locally, how many of you experience people questioning OC? Mocking extreme OC? I have seen quite an increase in Denmark over the past year - and I believe some of the reasons are highlighted in the rant - simply that its no fun with the respective level of playing field.

 

Over and out,

And please: Even if you dislike me, dislike someone else in the thread, do read websmiles post 3 times and think 'Does this seem appropriate to post.', absolutely no reason for personal insults.

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must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll, must not troll

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Plenty of issues here being conflated. Hence it becomes impossible to have a rational and progressive conversation. So far I see

1. Issues of how points work between the leagues

2. Issues regarding how HWBOT events are communicated/marketed or sold to end users/overclockers

3. The relevance of overclocking at Computex or any other trade show

4. How welcoming or unwelcoming the community is and the reasons for it.

 

Just in two pages all four have some up. Needless to say without a clear definition of what it is that is being discussed it'll become an exercise in frustration for everyone.

This rant is full of BS, I saw with my eyes the effort from PJ.

Go to piss your media BS on reddit. You don't give a damn about the community, are you just searching attention imho.[/Quote]

This kind of thing shows a special level of immaturity as nothing here address the issues that are being highlighted by the OP. Nobody is questioning how much work PJ is doing as it's obvious from what he has managed to do with HWBOT and the team. Moroever to claim someone doesn't give a damn about the community when they are raising a concern is perhaps myopic. This is the elitism that's unwarranted and unnecessary, but more over adds zero to the conversation other than insulting a community member. You'd not say this to someone in person at Computex for instance, but behind a keyboard it's ok to write. This aggressive nature in which we deal with divergent opinions isn't helping anyone. Even if he was looking for attention, would the points he made be any less valid? Think a little and try some empathy before you type. You don't own overclocking, nobody does as it belongs to everyone who is vested in it.

 

That said, I do think it's important to separate these issues and tackle them one at a time. That way real progress can be made. Some are community interaction problems, others structural point problems within HWBOT and others are down to how vendors interact with the overclockers and so much more. So to OP, your grievances may be valid, but it's hard to tell with all things being put together like this. So perhaps separating them and flashing them out into the components will help all parties involved reach a solution. I do believe that we all want a better community, that grows and remains lively, relevant and as fair as possible in as far as any competitive endeavor can be. We are all here because we care.

How we put that into practice is something else, but unpacking it and having a level headed conversation is a great place to start.

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Man realy? The frusttation of Marc start from not being invited at PRIVATE g.skill dinner (he pm me) and from the fact he found the doors closed the 29th at TWTC (PRIVATE EVENT WITH NDA INVOLVED).

This are the points where my "BS" was refered, because he forced the argumant to make a rant.

To finish i think he also auto-invite himself at Galax dinner...too funny

Don't worry i will say the same face to face, because i'm not afraid to say what i'm thinking about, BTW who are you?

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BTW who are you?

 

Guys lighten up, plan is too move forwards and not create internal additional issues or more drama than what is needed. Franco ShockG is Neo Sibeko,

 

Dude Alfonso relax... have a Limoncello, make that two :)

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I'm realy sorry but Marc's rant freak me out. After 2 week of fun with awasome people i can't accept this stuff! Why he don't said nothing there? And why some media now define himself part of our comunity?

The elium or ES arguments are basicaly the same from years...

 

Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk

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Seems like this is mostly a big misunderstanding about what time the open event ended. Not much to do about that now and no big deal.

 

The other part about elite/ES/helium is just same old discussion. It is relevant, but seems no point to discuss it since nothing ever happens.

 

One thing to consider though is what the amount of money spent on helium could do for the community? Of course the sponsors decide where they spend their money, but I have not seen any reports here in sweden about any helium or other xoc event at computex. Maybe hwbot could use their influence to get the sponsors/vendors to better spend the money to actually bring something to the community as well as PR. Now they just take the records away from the community and OCers get nothing.

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Everyone;

Thanks for the input, and for most keeping a friendly tone towards one another (and myself)

Yes, it is controversiel not just floating with the stream, but sometimes its healthy to look from outside the box.

Much thanks to PJP/Massman for keeping calm, despite he was the one person I choose to mention by nickname.

 

Rauf, same, no reports in Denmark.

 

RULE:

Oh boy, not even sure how to react.

Don't really want to lower myself that much.

Only thing I will mention is that you got the wrong idea Franco, both about me, but also the events taking place.

 

If you wish to have a discussion with me, do it in PM, but, straight up, you have to be more respectful, otherwise its not worth my time.

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Maybe hwbot could use their influence to get the sponsors/vendors to better spend the money to actually bring something to the community as well as PR. Now they just take the records away from the community and OCers get nothing.

 

We had a community event during the weekend, but some OCers went to vendors to take records for the PR. Including you! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black :).

 

//edit: just to clarify, I don't see anything wrong with going to vendor events for PR benching. However, don't be a hypocrite about it //

 

Our honest feedback to partners is always that pushing the envelope with overclocking achievements is certainly important, but it's equally important to support the eco-system of overclockers around it. That is why we also spend money on organizing an open gathering with free-flow nitrogen, breakfast, lunch and drinks. And why we also spend money on organizing an open dinner for the overclockers at night with free beer and food. And why we also spend an entire week with media educating on extreme overclocking. You can check the artwork to find out which companies backed our agenda this Computex.

 

Speaking of companies supporting the community: did GSKILL not host its fourth edition of the OC world cup with open qualification? Did GIGABYTE not host a series of online competitions for overclockers the past months? Was ROG not hosting an online team based contest during Computex?

 

:celebration:

Edited by Massman

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As per usual, a "what the hell are we whining about"

 

The day prior to Computex we went to collect our press badges, the first thing we saw when heading towards the escalator was a big banner for HWBot "8-17, overclocking gathering"

You were late, easy, just check the thread next time you know, the one YOU were OP for.

 

'selling OC' to the press - very unfortunate that HWBot decides to make a banner where media picks up their badges, and then give such a welcoming - I'd say, don't advertise at the freakin' escalator if it is a PRIVATE SHOW.

This was Taitra and not hwbot's problem. vendors can include whoever they want at private events and if youre not on the list, too bad.

I didnt get into the private events either, yknow what? I grabbed 500ml beers from 7/11 for 80NT and drank on my airbnb couch while watching chinese tv - good night had by all.

 

What bothers me then? Well... WR WR WR

This is how its done in Taiwan, Im an outsider and even I can see this.

 

Personally, I can hardly be described as poor, yet, I can't "pull an Andre", but if I could, how would I feel wanting to enter OC, bin 25+ 1080ti, bin 200 7700K and then more than 5 weeks before a new CPU hitting the stores it taking down all WR?

humble brag, what does this have to do with anything?

 

Honestly, I think its disrespectful towards the community and extreme overclockers that are not in-house clockers to allow even submitting none released hardware on the bot - its stupid that i7-7740K that you cannot buy, is allowed to posses the WR.

I brought this up in PM, since when has hwbot been about limiting ANYTHING?

You cant get a 7740K? too bad.

You cant get Helium? too bad.

Someone has better cpu/tweaks/time/money? bunnying stop whining, bench within your means and enjoy it for its own sake.

 

Where is the community spirit?

I drank a lot of spirits with the community this year.

 

Sell OC - sell it :)

OC isnt a beautiful butterfly, no one except people who do it care about it. How many people have actually been able to get people interested in overclocking, who are not already interested in overclocking?

 

Maybe hwbot could use their influence to get the sponsors/vendors to better spend the money to actually bring something to the community as well as PR. Now they just take the records away from the community and OCers get nothing.

MAYBE you should create hwbot2.org :rolleyes:

 

We had a community event during the weekend, but some OCers went to vendors to take records for the PR. Including you! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black :)

Sick burn

 

 

 

----

 

I for one had a cracking time at Computex this year at Hwbot events, dinners with overclockers and those that had no idea what overclocking was, and even just spending 8+hrs on my feet just talking and watching the gskill & other vendor booths.

if you had to be media, had to be on stage/in a lab doing pr stuff/had to be using helium to get scores and didnt get to have any fun...i feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but

Edited by zeropluszero

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IMO helium is not a problem. It will just push me to work harder without it and innovate such as direct die etc :) challenge accepted.

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