3Dmark 2008 'Vantage' Poll #2 - enable points

[Monstru]

Any benchmark is won by who has the newest, best, most expensive hardware and exotic cooling, the top sponsors, and so on. Would you shutdown all points because of this? It doesn't mean people can't bench what they have and still gain from it, just as it is with existing benches.

 

I beg your pardon, but for a good SuperPi score you just need one 250$ E8600, one 100$ Commando/Biostar T45/etc and some 80$ Ballistix kit. A LN2 pot every bencher should have, and you can get one for ~150$. So ....no....You don't get the best score with the most expensive hardware.... And if you want a top 2001 score, where tweaking really matters, all you add to those from above is a good 9800GX2, which retails now for what money? 290$? So you can get top20 results with <1000& machines, in benchmarks where tweaks and experience really does count... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130338

 

Now....what does it take to have a Top20 Vantage result when people really start using it? Skulltrail/QX9650.....3 GTX280/2 4870 X2???.... I think the financial difference is obvious.... Please add to that the fact that the HWB rules as they are, allready favor the rich sponsored guys (if I would post a picture with 5 E8600 and 4 4870X2 my team can have lot's of different results with those tools, but if a small team made out of skilled people shares the same CPU or GFX you can only have one score in the category, and only one of those who really worked hard can enjoy the score under his name).... So I say...the balance is already in favor of rich benchers, why favor them more?

 

We allready have 2k6 and WPrime for those monster systems....Why add more benchmarks for those? For what it's worth...if in the future benchmarking will mean that you need a Skulltrail type platform or 3 GFX to be in the top .... I think many good old school Pi and 2k1 tweakers will stop benching....Remember.....it's all about your skills, not how much money you have....

Edited August 14, 2008 by Monstru

[IllusioN]

.., everybody have the same opportunity of getting to those monsterrigs.., in my case.., (poor as a churchrat) I made a deal with a dealer.., fixing rma´s.., building systems.., showing results in different forums.., I am a slave under my addiction.., so I do a lot of work to get my chans to rip some hw apart and.., you dont need to be sponsored or rich to have this opportunity.., just lift your ass and go out marketing your skills..! :-)

[NBF]

I beg your pardon, but for a good SuperPi score you just need one 250$ E8600, one 100$ Commando/Biostar T45/etc and some 80$ Ballistix kit. A LN2 pot every bencher should have, and you can get one for ~150$. So ....no....You don't get the best score with the most expensive hardware.... And if you want a top 2001 score, where tweaking really matters, all you add to those from above is a good 9800GX2, which retails now for what money? 290$? So you can get top20 results with <1000& machines, in benchmarks where tweaks and experience really does count... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130338

 

Now....what does it take to have a Top20 Vantage result when people really start using it? Skulltrail/QX9650.....3 GTX280/2 4870 X2???.... I think the financial difference is obvious.... Please add to that the fact that the HWB rules as they are, allready favor the rich sponsored guys (if I would post a picture with 5 E8600 and 4 4870X2 my team can have lot's of different results with those tools, but if a small team made out of skilled people shares the same CPU or GFX you can only have one score in the category, and only one of those who really worked hard can enjoy the score under his name).... So I say...the balance is already in favor of rich benchers, why favor them more?

 

We allready have 2k6 and WPrime for those monster systems....Why add more benchmarks for those? For what it's worth...if in the future benchmarking will mean that you need a Skulltrail type platform or 3 GFX to be in the top .... I think many good old school Pi and 2k1 tweakers will stop benching....Remember.....it's all about your skills, not how much money you have....

 

I'm sorry to desagree, you're a well known bencher and your opinion is valuable.

 

You are saing that new multi-threaded benchmarks should stay off the ranking, but all new softwares and benchs are aimming for multi-thread, CPUs and GPUs as well are going this way.

 

I agree with the fact that those systems cost much more, but I think that keeping those benches out off score count will turn HWBot into a dinosaurs bench place in the near future.

[MeltDown]

If Vantage is approved, will the nVidia scores with PhysX enabled drivers be allowed, or is that a whole separate discussion?

[SF3D]

If Vantage is approved, will the nVidia scores with PhysX enabled drivers be allowed, or is that a whole separate discussion?

 

It is a separate discussion, but I can answer. Futuremark does not approve it, so we don't aprove it either.

 

The game must be fair for everyone, so those PhysX scores will be moderated just like other wrongly submitted scores here. Those scores are easy to spot and there will be no problem with them.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

since anyone can force 1920x1200 res from drivers I say both extreme and performance. extreme is the future of benching for the next year as systems get more powerful.

 

I know it should be free, but if you spent 1500$-3000$ for your machine, whats 20$ for a license that you can use forever?

 

also- I dont want to use xp except I have to when I want a top 3Dm06 score, some may think I sound silly but I would rather be able to rightly test and tweak my system on vista than have to make a second partition, install updates, install drivers.

Edited August 14, 2008 by SNiiPE_DoGG

[DonBanana]

I totally agree with Monstru. Voted for "no".

[Gomeler]

This benchmark will only be adopted by the benchmarking community if HWBot awards points for it. The benchmark is gaining acceptance amongst the reviewing crowd and even the top benchers are using Vantage so the last step is HWBot. Award points for the default preset as it doesn't require a large monitor and we are set. Perhaps we could also award points to the 1680x1050 preset but not everyone can support that resolution while 1280x1024 is the current consumer "minimum" asides from laptop screens.

[jurek]

119 votes? it can be easily manipulated

[Massman]

119 votes? it can be easily manipulated

 

What?

[ncc-1709]

there should really have been a "yes id like to see boints, but should be Free" vote to add to the no votes, that way it makes it more of a even poll, because as it is, you have 3 ways to vote yes, but only one to say no, so the outcome is gonna look biased.

[richba5tard]

I fear that it won't be free in the near future. We can try to lower the price...

[Monstru]

.., everybody have the same opportunity of getting to those monsterrigs.., in my case.., (poor as a churchrat) I made a deal with a dealer.., fixing rma´s.., building systems.., showing results in different forums.., I am a slave under my addiction.., so I do a lot of work to get my chans to rip some hw apart and.., you don't need to be sponsored or rich to have this opportunity.., just lift your ass and go out marketing your skills..! :-)

 

My friend, I would appreciate if you would mind the language....I "lift my ass" to go to work, there are other needs in a grown-up's life other then benching....It is not only a money issue, but more and more seem to fail in seeing that, blinded by marketing and advertising. With the benchmarks we have now you have a fair chance to good results, but please.....oh please....try to get a TOP result in WPrime or Vantage...By all means...you work in marketing, you say you have it good, try to get a top result and tell me how it is.

 

The idea is very simple....if Vantage get points, there are only more points for advertising guys like KP or H5, not for regular benchers like us. If you guys think that's a good thing, sure...why not....let's have points...I will borrow hardware from stores and magazines to have 3 GTX280 or 2 4870X2 to have good results in Vantage...but is that fair?

 

And another thing..this comes against everything HWB stands for....IT IS NOT FREE....If you guys allow that...what is next? We become Nvidia's and Futuremark's and Microsoft's slaves, getting fed up with everything they give us, and not putting up any resistance....Great....welcome to the Matrix

[IllusioN]

Hey.., was not my meaning to offend You., "lift your ass" was simply an reminder that nothing comes free in life..,

In everything I participated in life.., dragracing, roadracing, you name it.., there will always be a certain click of people that manage to have the best stuff and therefore nearly always win.., but that doesnt mean that I think its unfair.., opposite.., I try to race them anyways and do the best I can with the things I have...

Hwbot is like dragracing.., you have every opportunity to "run what You brung".., and we do.., we dont whine over unfairness.., we simply race the hell out of what we have..

I think everybody must set there own milestones in every benchmark.., not always look at superrigs with LN flowing like tapwater..

(even if its the "coolest" thing;-)

 

So.., again.., was not my meaning to offend..:-)

[westsider]

yes

i vote for both standart and extreme benchs

[Monstru]

Ok, I understand. I was trying to point out something else. All that we do means we have to have great tools. None of us comes to a "race" without enough horse power. But putting an F1 car to compete against a tractor in dragging weight is not a good idea. You don't see the driver's skill in that

[loonym]

Ok, I understand. I was trying to point out something else. All that we do means we have to have great tools. None of us comes to a "race" without enough horse power. But putting an F1 car to compete against a tractor in dragging weight is not a good idea. You don't see the driver's skill in that

Indeed. That's why we are very lucky hwbot seperates those so everyone can compete. The categories, single - multiple card, hw points so my 8800 class cards can still run even though people have 280 or such. Edited August 16, 2008 by loonym

[jurek]

making an account on forum which is fake if u one makes 10 accounts like that than its 10% of votes cast by one person 3d mark team go go go

 

btw only 1/4 options is NO

 

and 3/4 options are YES

 

so i say this poll is bullshit

[TheKarmakazi]

making an account on forum which is fake if u one makes 10 accounts like that than its 10% of votes cast by one person 3d mark team go go go

 

btw only 1/4 options is NO

 

and 3/4 options are YES

 

so i say this poll is bullshit

 

You bench laptops, so why do you care?

[Massman]

making an account on forum which is fake if u one makes 10 accounts like that than its 10% of votes cast by one person 3d mark team go go go

 

btw only 1/4 options is NO

 

and 3/4 options are YES

 

so i say this poll is bullshit

 

Anyone who makes multiple accounts to bias a POLL which is about adding a certain benchmark or not is just plain sad.

[jurek]

i do not care i state my opinion

[jurek]

Anyone who makes multiple accounts to bias a POLL which is about adding a certain benchmark or not is just plain sad.

 

sad? i would said other

 

what if every member of 3d mark created and account on hwbot and cast his vote?

[Massman]

Every member of 3DMark? Do you mean every member of Futuremark?

 

Well, if they are, they should do a better job

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

it doesn't matter if 3 options are yes, its not as if people are blindly selecting an option and have a higher likelihood of hitting yes

 

as long as people read the poll options the poll is not biased

[k|ngp|n]

I vote extreme and performance..

If you add vantage at all, you MUST include physX results or else you guys will need to remove all FM submissions done on ANY orb-unapproved drivers for any 3dmark besides 01 as well...

With the way the orb has been redesigned, you get the same error message that you get now with physics drivers upon submission that you get with unapproved video card drivers and it makes the benchmark invalid the same either way. PhysX gives you orb link for compare and that is all that HWBOT rules require.

 

PhysX not allowed = No more FM un-approved orb drivers allowed. Anything else is hypocrisy.

What do the FM rules say about submission validity?... Benchmarks needs to be run on drivers that pass futuremarks verification and approval policy.

Edited August 17, 2008 by k|ngp|n