Gunslinger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 A month is not what I suggested either. I said a week for benching. Shouldn't be that much of a problem to tell your wife you'll be busy after work for ONE week. I want to see you tell my wife that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Seems like he has a good wife +475$ For you Hondacity, I'll include the invoice in my screenshots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I don't think Joe public will understand when they buy the latest GPU that they're really happy with, run some benches on... and try to submit to HWB only to find the scores are in a "no-mans land" for a week/fortnight/month/whatever. Depending on launch day supply (which over the years, has got much much better, so in future will probably continue) then ANYONE can walk into any good store and buy the part, I think it's right they can submit on launch day too, even if it's stock + 10% or whatever The best scores for hardware XYZ, especially GPUs, will be in 2 years time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmax Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Wow what an epic thread!, I wanted to throw my two coins in and say that this is really a bad idea. First of all if you step back a moment, aside from the "league" distinction everyone is still on the same scale. Pro League, OC League doesn't really matter unless you are looking for reasons to pad your point standings. (within the league) I still look at myself at the Country level and rarely pay attention to the Leagues or ever overall. As for a grace period for when submissions will generate points. I am not a fan, not so much because it prevents "pro" level people from submitting scores but more from the fact that you are limiting members from showing off their new system and subjecting them to rules that clearly don't matter. Besides it not like their record will last long, give it a month they will be down from 10 points and a gold cup to 0.1 and forgotten in the sea of submissions. IMO this whole thread is a witch hunt. However, if you really are worried about Pro vs OC league placement you need to implement a voting system so that if someone flags a result and thinks the person needs to move up to Pro then it should be handled like a submission moderation and case by case. Give the member a chance to justify themselves and if they happen to be a repeat offender then make it a mandatory move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted January 7, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) A month is not what I suggested either. I said a week for benching. Shouldn't be that much of a problem to tell your wife you'll be busy after work for ONE week. After all, these releases don't happen that often. I want to see you tell my wife that. Me too :battle: Not really a good thing this "delay" between accepting results in the different leagues, but I already said my opinion earlier and didn't get much feedback so I will not insist. I think my opinions are old school You are not old, i'm old...btw. often have to change something to improve, if you can do. IMO this whole thread is a witch hunt. However, if you really are worried about Pro vs OC league placement you need to implement a voting system so that if someone flags a result and thinks the person needs to move up to Pro then it should be handled like a submission moderation and case by case. Give the member a chance to justify themselves and if they happen to be a repeat offender then make it a mandatory move. Pro league could continue like this, because there, you can use everything, including show results before the sale like 7970. But in Oc league , scores were presented in the month of December 2011 of Grafic 7970., This should be the privilege of Pro League, otherwise it undermined the Pro League and takes advantage with lower league sports Imho, Pro league can allow, but enthusiast and Oc league cannot be, because two people (like i write before) take serious advantage over other. A person who has to pay 600 Euros a graphic card, it takes more than a month to buy it, besides his wife may want a divorce 600 euros is equal to 850 U.S. too much for many people in the world, including Europe and USA at the moment, So, the crisis makes no difference to people no matter where they live, many guys can not buy more hardware here, There and Everywhere. The best scores for hardware XYZ, especially GPUs, will be in 2 years time..... This is true. You know that, with good benchs Well.. at the end here's a good discussion Edited January 7, 2012 by Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Me too :battle: You are not old, i'm old...btw. often have to change something to improve, if you can do. Pro league could continue like this, because there, you can use everything, including show results before the sale like 7970. But in Oc league , scores were presented in the month of December 2011 of Grafic 7970., This should be the privilege of Pro League, otherwise it undermined the Pro League and takes advantage with lower league sports Imho, Pro league can allow, but enthusiast and Oc league cannot be, because two people (like i write before) take serious advantage over other. A person who has to pay 600 Euros a graphic card, it takes more than a month to buy it, besides his wife may want a divorce 600 euros is equal to 850 U.S. too much for many people in the world, including Europe and USA at the moment, So, the crisis makes no difference to people no matter where they live, many guys can not buy more hardware here, There and Everywhere Well.. at the end here's a good discussion Correct me if I'm wrong, but launch dates are more or less confirmed more than a month in advance - at least rumours of launch dates are known. So no need to save everything in just one month (which is hard for anyone I think, at least if we're talking about extreme edition CPUs). An extra month would help a little bit, but it wouldn't matter THAT much. Plus you can usually sell the previous generation HW you've used, so you don't have to actually pay the full price of the newest generation CPU/GPU. Then, if you sell your stuff while it's still top end you'll get alot of $$$ for it, and the $$$-gap you have to cover from your own pocket is less. Con: you have no CPU/GPU for a while. As for wife issues: I wouldn't tolerate being bossed around like that:D You've got a hobby, which is quite normal. She can be the LN2 bitch if she wants to, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted January 7, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) As for wife issues: I wouldn't tolerate being bossed around like that You've got a hobby, which is quite normal. She can be the LN2 bitch if she wants to, no? You dont know my wife, in my house I only say two words, "Yes Darling" Married since 1981, btw:woot: Well, talking more seriously., yes everyone can know or imagine the hardware launch date (i think), but as we can do ?, if in some parts of the world, in this discussion we have seen somewhere in Europe, have been sold long ago (long time 1 month perhaps) Manufacturer's marketing ? no doubt the results of these grafics cards have created a great anxiety to buy, no? can I write Spanish ?, my daughter is not here and my English is abominable Edited January 7, 2012 by Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) There are 2 diferent things at this thread...as I told in my post... "one size to fits all"... Here in Latino America, as Sweet explained, we never will have fast lauched hardware...but I never claim about it... So... we usually needs to wait and we have nothing to do about it.... Here is important to be well positioned to look for help... hardware... support... When Rev4 was lauched my choice was Pro League, to compete against the best and to try do do my best... So, companys (brands and vendors) looked for me...and after 5 years looking for, I was hired. I always overclocked with my own money... and bought my own hardware... but since november... I am working to Corsair (I love to work there) But I have never received Videocards, CPUs, motherboards and hardware was necessary to Overclock hard...and just 2 kits of RAM, 4 SSDs and 2 PSD 1200W... Few days ago... I hold #6 in the Pro League...and checked the leagues...and noticed I coud be #1 in Overclockers League... You can not understand how hard was to me to hold this place. Then I asked to hwbot to change to Overclockers League and was denied to change.... The explaination is....cause I work for a vendor... Ok... I will not fight... So... few days after... HD 7970 start to brake all my scores in the air...and I losed lots os hwboints... So I asked.... Who is supported??? I am supported cause I work for a vendor? (as channel marketing...nothing about overclocking...only to spread the name Corsair cause I am well recognized in my country)... buts lots of guys receive CPUs, Videocards, Motherboards...etc... to review... to overclock... to sell... to ALL... and don't move to Overclockers League... Ok again... no problem... I will drop down #6 to #20 fast... and will never more (perhaps) fight to receive a new acheivement (TO ME>>>IS IMPORTANT...cause you only can get help in my country if you can show you deserve - earn - and sure... Top guys haves their achievements... Further... I think we can find funny things like to find a #1 in the Enthusiast League get a achievement "Overclocking King" and be free to spread to all that is the #1... (is the same that Nick, Kingpin, Hicookie, Andre and the Masters... I would like to get an new achievement and would be very good to my work and to my future, but I understand hwbot point of view...I only don't understand why lots of guys have no forced to go to Pro League. I think there are lots of things hwbot need to fix...but unfortunately...is not hwbot fault...and...is impossible to be fair with all... P.S. I think we have to think lots of things...like: CPU AMD at 7500 Mhz get less points that a SB in the air. People earning points in the same benchmark with 1, SLI, 3 Way, 4 Way...and receive all points... People earning points with hardware before to be lauched... etc. Its inly my point of view...and...as always... will be people that will agree..and disagree Best regards from Brazil and sorry the awful english Edited January 8, 2012 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 8, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) So will all this .... continue if Nvidia launches it's new GPU architecture. ( to apparently crush AMD latest offering) .. Isn't this how it always has been.. new hardware that demolishes all previous scores... Makes you loose points if you don't buy it ? And if you even buy it, some will always have more access to either bin, get stuff for free... Or even buy a pretested +5.9GHZ CPU. What's the issue with 7970 ? Ronaldo you loose points now and will catch up in a few months or so when the card is available in your country... Maybe even at a better price and with better drivers : Outcome : you will beat most of the current scores that have pushed you down the ranking... I don't get the point in some posts here... What has changed in the hardware world ? Nothing it evolves, redefines,... so scores will be beaten/crushed... Wouldn't you be bored when benching always the same old stuff ? Am I envious about Suicide's, Ronaldo's or Nick Sihs CPUs. A bit yes coz I didn't find or am able to buy them cherry CPU's. So I have to settle at 5.6Ghz and will try my best to submit competitive scores. For the rest it's all in the hands of the hardware gods. I still have fun, but not as active to compete at any level... not even my purpose of being here... To me it's just fun, even if it costs sometimes a lot of cash. But so do other hobbies ! And who forces you to buy the latest and the best ? I can understand some people invest a lot of money, want to be in and stay in top 5/10. And probably want to get hardware for free in the end... Isn't that where the debate is here really all about. Invest hard and then get supported ? Some will get exhausted and give in, some will just continue at maybe a lower pace... You are all taking this hobby far too seriously, for some it's work. For some a passion and for others it will end up as a frustration... you take your choice of preference... The system always wil have flaws, so does real life... Edited January 8, 2012 by Leeghoofd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafio Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 +1k for Leeghoofd stop bitching and start having fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 +1. The latest GPUs on release day, with release drivers........will not get scores that last. I'm ok with waiting a couple months and waiting for "THE" driver, or for prices to drop or for a 3rd-party PCB design..... or all 3 at once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLion Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 +1 for Leeghoofd I'm total agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Leeghoofd for President !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuass Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) + 1 too.... But what about "need to be" or not ... to Pro League ... If I work to Microsoft and no in Corsair...still I keep in Pro? ... cause any worker works to receive money and no pc parts ... You don't see I tell that I disagree the rules..... and I do not tell I disagree to be in Pro league.... I do not disagree to have to effort myself to do my best ... but why this is not for all? I really think this way ... We are in a democratic place ... and the firts thing I writed is: Thats impossible to be fair to all ... but in my point of view, if I have no videocards, cpus, motherboards, technical information provided by a vendor I have no to be "forced" to be in Pro League ... cause to have this stuff is mandatory to do overclock... but if hwbot want to end this thread and keep this way ... I will keep "mine point of view"....why I have to be forced to keep in Pro League if i buy all my hardware??? (I never submited once memory benchmark ... for exemple) In South America we fight for a cause, is like an ideal. We never had the same conditions and prices of the most developed, just see that across the continent have only three considered overclockers (but lots and lots of latin american talents that have lots of skill but not enough conditions (hardware, money) to be in the TOP, ... (is me, Nacho and E Killer .... in amount 1 Bilion of people... trying to show that we are alive).... So... if hwbot delay to give boints will be good...but if hwbot do not agree to delay recent launched hardware... it will be not any problem (thats ok to keep this way) We are not the only... for exemple... you can not see Africa continent here @@ ....and South Africa alone Further is not (to me) the only thing I think can be changed... to me ... this (below) is the most important Why CPU AMD at 7500 Mhz get less points that a SB in the air:. Why people earns points in the same benchmark with 1, SLI, 3 Way, 4 Way...and all receive all points... etc People earning points with hardware before to be lauched...is tiny I will agree hwbot decision ... but you guys can think about it... sorry awful english Best regards for all ... this is enough "to me" .... and is nice to be part of this forun when each guy can tell free his way of thinking Edited January 8, 2012 by rbuass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oanvoanc Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 ... It's not about the skill anymore, it's about who have the right BIOS, the right software, knows all the mods and have the best sample and that's very sad!Maybe the issue is with me, but I think more and more people think like me and this sport it's not what it used to be +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 8, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 8, 2012 "Originally Posted by matose View Post ... It's not about the skill anymore, it's about who have the right BIOS, the right software, knows all the mods and have the best sample and that's very sad!" This has always been the case Matose... don't see anything new... some people have more resources... some have luck,... But even then with the best CPU, tools etc... there still will be a difference between final results... In some way of the other a skilled overclocker, that is able to fight with the same material/soft, will still have an edge... You can't exclude luck in finding a good GPU/GPU/RAM... Ofcourse the more you can bin, the higher the chance is of finding a golden one... same old story... nothing new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted January 8, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) stop bitching and start having fun Mafio, I dont see bitching here, This thread is very good, is a debate only, The best overclockers (I'm not, of course) all mentioned important problem in the region where they live. Why you say "bitching" ?, This thread is very serious and everyone can express their thoughts seriously,. Each has a point, this is given by the economic position of each state of the economy of each country and each region, hwbot not forget that is for everyone and not everyone has to think or express same in the same way for me +1 for Leeghoofd and +1 for rbuass, when they disagree with respect to the opinion of another. Now, Why you think that in Greece was sold long before amd 7970 ? than in other parts of the world ? thats no the first time,. Why you think it's fair that only two guys have in December of last year with excellent results in Overclocking league and no one in the Pro league ? I like this discussion in the right way, please keep it that way Edited January 8, 2012 by Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 If it's not about skill anymore, can someone explain to me why Shamino got his card upto 1700/2000 MHz? Surely, the ability to figure out hardware modifications falls under 'skill', just like it did in the days where Hipro5 modified the crap out of his s479 Dothan adapter. Unless, of course, you think it's only 'skill' if you just have to follow a modding guide ... In addition, have you guys ever considered that the fact that overclocking has become a lot about sample selection is a consequence of more people having mastered the skill to work with liquid nitrogen? In general, the skill of the extreme overclocker has gone up a lot in the last couple of years. We've now reached a point where cpu or cpu/gpu on LN2 is no longer an issue ... just look at the recent MOA results. It's a bit strange, though, that you think it's now worse because the overclockers are more skilled now ... //edit: A quote that says it all: im tried of telling people, i hope to have people tell me what volts and temps at times too. ~ http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18953&postcount=23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafio Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) so what, here in europe i can't buy an EVGA X79, i can't buy super talent DDR3 and many other things that are sold in USA...then we should put everyone has this stuff in the pro league cause not everyone in every part of the world can buy them... i also have the problem that hardware here cost much more than what it costs in the USA...then put every guys that live in the USA in the pro league cause is not fair for an EU guy like me to compete against someone that pay things less than me. 7970 is sold only in greece, ok, let's put every greek guy in the pro league cause it's not fair that they have something i can't buy at my place.... c'mon...this is ridiculous... do you really need a card at the day one when BIOS are betas, tweaking softwares don't support it, drivers are crap and so on? just sit and wait one or two months, then you will be able to buy the same card in your country possibly at a lower price and have everything working fine. Edited January 8, 2012 by Mafio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted January 8, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) do you really need a card at the day one when BIOS are betas, tweaking softwares don't support it, drivers are crap and so on?just sit and wait one or two months, then you will be able to buy the same card in your country possibly at a lower price and have everything working fine. You are right in this, of course, but the first score in december 22, 2011 is not a guy of Greece , in the Overclocker League, not Pro league. Btw. I live much further from Europe than you, and probably the price of 7970 (which is still seen in the photos because there is) will be 800 or 900 U.S. I think anyone who can get ultimate hardware a month before the release should be a pro league, not Overclocking league, Imho of course Edited January 8, 2012 by Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 But these Greeks bought their hardware ... just like you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Sweet Posted January 8, 2012 Crew Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) But these Greeks bought their hardware ... just like you would. Maybe, i will buy this 7970, for me, not for benchs, Back in time , when the team was created "Gigabyte Team" You said: we should happen to the Pro League, you remember that ? Only the name of the team and 25 lts of ln2 every two months,. anddd, i'm use asus mainboard In this case and and future cases, using pre-release hardware should not be Pro league ? Edited January 8, 2012 by Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Kenny do you need an eVBot? It available in Germany for sale 60€ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 In this case and and future cases, using pre-release hardware should not be Pro league ? Radeon HD 7970 was launched officially. People bought retail sample with their own money. Of course they should not be forced to the Pro League. The only argument you could maybe make is that they should wait for the retail launch (09/01) before getting points. But then again, technically all AMD branded cards are not at all under NDA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafio Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) in europe a 7970 will cost 500+ €... 500 EUR = 636 USD. so really, not much more than what you will pay for it in your contry. on 22 december, and also right now, drivers are really immature. in two months, when everyone will be able to get a card without have to know a guy that work for this or that brand, every results made today will be beaten. so really, i don't understand why you guys are doing this big mess for a thing that will always happen (someone will always have things first than the others, someone will have things paying less money and so on). edit: as for EVBOT it was on EVGA site for so long time, here in EU was sold for 99 € and 2 or 3 months ago it was 60 €. everyone could buy it. EVGA untouchable and ANUS xpander well, you are right, those 2 things are a joke and they should not be allowed cause they are only for "selected people". Edited January 8, 2012 by Mafio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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