poparamiro Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 ... but those are super cherry picked-card type results, if they sold the card to each other I'm sorry but it's kind of suspicious nachtfalke will not sold this cards to me even i cut my dick off Not all the cards are binned, there are lot of cards that work very well from first pick (HD5850/9800gtx/9800gtx+/7900gtx/HD5870/9600gt/8800ultra... and a lot more), and there are cards that after 2-4 picks are ok/good or very good. 8800gt for example, i can't find a good one after i test about 9 cards. It is perfectly normal that from a lot of cards, some of them will have ~same freq on similar cooling/conditions. Situation is the same for nachtfalke, and both buy our own cards. I will post pictures with the two 4850 cards and i will ask nachtfalke to do the same. ...and ban Monstru for defending two of the most notorious hwbot infractors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You're WAAAY too lucky to hit all those gems first try. You complain about testing nine cards and not finding a good one ... some bin ten times more with the same result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm not 100% agree with you. I test on air, maybe 90% of them are crap on LN2. I use the best aircooling possible, combined with low ambient and lot of work, i can't hit that freq on 20c ambient. With a lot of cards it is posible to get good/very good results on air with my conditions, is not such big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) I agree with Sams point. Do you appreciate how lucky you are to get so many good cards with the first purchase? A good card on ANY cooling usually takes much more than one shot This is probably why there are questions about some scores. To have A/ cards that good, B/ performing at very similar MHz, C/ within the same team, D/submitted quite close together. You all understand WHY this thread has occured, right? Ok, i'll say it.... that.. AND the fact two of you have been caught sharing hardware before. Edited May 1, 2012 by K404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Again, i make them so good. I mod them, i spend a lot of time to find the right combination of voltages, cooling used, and a lot of other factors.... I stay hundred of hours on very cold ambient, lots of nights when i freeze an get sick, test and test again, because there was many failures on many nights when i can't get a single good result with those cards that " i get so lucky". Without all this there was 1100mhz on air with HD5850 instead of 1150, 770mhz with Ultra instead of 810... and so on, but hey... i am so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) If you think your luck is so bad, do it for 15 cards across 4 months because the first 14 cards were bad and you had to spend hours on each one to find that out. I really don't see a valid point. It took me 9 months. Seriously! 9 MONTHS! to get ONE good GTS 512MB and it sounds like you are complaining because you had to stand in the cold to bench ONE card. I don't mind that you have had good luck in finding hardware. Some people are lucky, some are not... but at least appreciate what you have found. Edited May 2, 2012 by K404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 No, my luck is not bad, i am not complaining, just telling that i get those freq with lots of work, why is so hard to understand. I stay in cold with all my cards. I search one year for one good 8800 GTS 512. More for good 260 216sp or GTX285 and not have any. nachfalke's awesome 285/275/260 are quick find, but without his great dedication there it was only ok cards, not great, this is what i'm saying, his work make them great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergiorb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I think people don't need to fight or be agressive to be asked; is just show that's only a coincidence. People can solve the troubles in a polite way. ; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtfalke Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I have binned more than a year to find a good GTS250, but nobody understands that many blame my.... i have tried all kind of card´s ( reference -non reference) .... i have found one MSI with good gpu + ram ( ohh ya ...Hynix N2C...the best gddr3)...but my lucky was not so ..nice , the card was i found ...heave NCP 5388 pwm controler ...with all kind of protection( OCP / OVP/ UVP..etc..) i modded hard the card but OVP was so crazy(Remember ..when you use air/water cooling OCP/ OVP limit is more down to extreme cooling)the final solution was to mount them ePower .... and I did .... but nobody appreciates it ...accused that .... accused my work ...i have video , but is ridiculos because you can not do video at each bench session which may last even days Now I gotta go to work ,but when I get back I'll put pictures of the cards you want ...as I said in my post on page 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Honestly I am always pro explaining and helping others understand, but after this thread is been going on and on and on and on and on and on for months, I am getting sick of it. Overclocking is luck (hardware) + HARD work + skill (knowledge, etc). If anybody wants to disagree, feel free to, but remember I have a clue what I am talking about... We've lost competitions due to luck (bad hardware), due to work (we didn't push hard enough), and do to skill (we were not experienced enough or we did not have the best strategy). We've won competitions because of the same reasons: we had better hardware, we worked harder or had better skill, depending on the situation. I've learned to accept that, and I am sure all those who were in the same competitions were in the same situation and they know very well what I am talking about. However, luck alone does nor produce repeatable results, again you know what I am talking about. Now, if you cannot get results similar to others, you might be lacking luck (hardware), hard work or skill. If a person gets best results for what he is doing, I am sure it is about a little bit more then luck...And if a person can't get those results over and over and over again...it is not just luck... Personally I am sick of tired of seeing this guys being attacked over and over and over again by people that are not capable enough of getting good clocks on LN2. What is the point of the air-cooling section on HWBot if somebody can't be the best without being suspicious???? Yes gentleman, some people are that good on air that they can beat average LN2 results. Wow, what a shocker!!! Yes, we didn't notice this until now because we did not have the category. Now we notice it. And I would advise all those that want to be overclockers to start working, if they see that they have worse results on LN2 the air. Most of the big dogs don't play on air, it is normal. That is why you do not usually see extraordinary results on air, cause people are busy with LN2 or DICE or whatever. And the guys you see being extraordinary on air are not the "big names". Is that so hard to understand? Does anybody has a problem with admitting they are simply not good enough??? I mean, don't get me wrong, asking is ok, there is no problem with that. Accusing is a totally different story, and I see it keeps repeating. Kenny - Ramiro and nachfalke did not share a thing, why are you speaking this kind of things? It is all in this thread... Now we can solve this in 3 ways: -please delete the air cooling category, since the ones who are really not good LN2 clockers will feel insulted by the better air results -please somebody, Pieter, come here and bench with Ramiro and tell the world how it felt like... -please, oh please don't make me let my work aside and start using air again just to prove what can be done with air cooling...( I remembered I once held the 4th 3DMVantage overall score using air-cooling ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 ^ I think you should join enthusiast league monstru I kid I kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Kenny - Ramiro and nachfalke did not share a thing, why are you speaking this kind of things? It is all in this thread... I never said they did I was referring to "the third guy" and the name has been mentioned in the thread. He has had a warning for it, as well as someone else. Like it or not, what they did one year ago "tainted" some opinions of their work. I think that makes an accusation much easier to make now. I do find some of the MHz mentioned hard to get my head around. Not impossible but worthy of extra proof? I think so. I also find it hard to believe 2-3mm plastic cable ties can provide the necessary mounting pressure. I don't use cable ties for much, so I might be wrong there. Edited May 2, 2012 by K404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Me too, me too, I wanna show my gears: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Ban Ney for picture sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtfalke Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 "I also find it hard to believe 2-3mm plastic cable ties can provide the necessary mounting pressure." - i also find it hard to believe when you dont´t try...see you .... often practice contradicts theory... my turn:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Honestly I am always pro explaining and helping others understand, but after this thread is been going on and on and on and on and on and on for months, I am getting sick of it. Overclocking is luck (hardware) + HARD work + skill (knowledge, etc). If anybody wants to disagree, feel free to, but remember I have a clue what I am talking about... We've lost competitions due to luck (bad hardware), due to work (we didn't push hard enough), and do to skill (we were not experienced enough or we did not have the best strategy). We've won competitions because of the same reasons: we had better hardware, we worked harder or had better skill, depending on the situation. I've learned to accept that, and I am sure all those who were in the same competitions were in the same situation and they know very well what I am talking about. However, luck alone does nor produce repeatable results, again you know what I am talking about. Now, if you cannot get results similar to others, you might be lacking luck (hardware), hard work or skill. If a person gets best results for what he is doing, I am sure it is about a little bit more then luck...And if a person can't get those results over and over and over again...it is not just luck... Personally I am sick of tired of seeing this guys being attacked over and over and over again by people that are not capable enough of getting good clocks on LN2. What is the point of the air-cooling section on HWBot if somebody can't be the best without being suspicious???? Yes gentleman, some people are that good on air that they can beat average LN2 results. Wow, what a shocker!!! Yes, we didn't notice this until now because we did not have the category. Now we notice it. And I would advise all those that want to be overclockers to start working, if they see that they have worse results on LN2 the air. Most of the big dogs don't play on air, it is normal. That is why you do not usually see extraordinary results on air, cause people are busy with LN2 or DICE or whatever. And the guys you see being extraordinary on air are not the "big names". Is that so hard to understand? Does anybody has a problem with admitting they are simply not good enough??? I mean, don't get me wrong, asking is ok, there is no problem with that. Accusing is a totally different story, and I see it keeps repeating. Kenny - Ramiro and nachfalke did not share a thing, why are you speaking this kind of things? It is all in this thread... Now we can solve this in 3 ways: -please delete the air cooling category, since the ones who are really not good LN2 clockers will feel insulted by the better air results -please somebody, Pieter, come here and bench with Ramiro and tell the world how it felt like... -please, oh please don't make me let my work aside and start using air again just to prove what can be done with air cooling...( I remembered I once held the 4th 3DMVantage overall score using air-cooling ). I like the first suggestion. If you can't tell LN2 from air clocks, then why have separate categories at all? Poparamiro has defined a new limit of air cooling, and the conclusion can only be that LN2 doesn't give such a huge advantage after all - if you do the mods correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I am up for the ticket to romania, haters pay me ticket ? (go only, I wanna stay to bench with subzero air) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 [..]go only, I wanna stay to bench with subzero air You do know it's summer, right? How's the weather in the benchroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstru Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I like the first suggestion. If you can't tell LN2 from air clocks, then why have separate categories at all? Poparamiro has defined a new limit of air cooling, and the conclusion can only be that LN2 doesn't give such a huge advantage after all - if you do the mods correctly. Heh bro...it's not only that, as I said... If Ramiro uses air and x clocker uses LN2, it's something. If Ramiro uses air and I use LN2...it's a bit different Also, the hardware matters. With SB or some GFX, good air cooling can make you a god. Now try getting that with Dothan, Cedar Mill or Bulldozer ))) @ Genieben - dude, we can bench with Ramiro in the meat house fridge @ Kenny - Ramiro has never shared anything with anybody. He is a person I personally truly admire. Why doubt him? He is the guys that made cooler testing sites to change methodology... And yeah, nachtfalke's hardware has been used by somebody else in the past. Does that make him a cheater? And let me tell you a secret. This little guy pissed me off in the past because of his attitude on local forums. He is a young enthusiast (in terms of how long he has been oc-ing) so he does not have enough experience and he can be a handful sometimes, I give you that. BUT, this guy love what he does, he REALLY works hard, and he is good at it. And I really appreciate him for this. I would bench with him with all my pleasure anytime, instead of benching with half of the LN2 dudes on HWB. And I think you know me, and you know I am hardcore to the bone... (and if anyone doubts that, I am seriously considering quiting oc-ing =)))) ) @ Ney - that is puny bro...you wanna see my stack? =)) Edited May 2, 2012 by Monstru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Nah thanks I already have lots of pic of you on my desktop. I was just following the good idea to send sombody down then. I vote for winter btw if somebody is thinking about my ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Heh bro...it's not only that, as I said... If Ramiro uses air and x clocker uses LN2, it's something. If Ramiro uses air and I use LN2...it's a bit different Also, the hardware matters. With SB or some GFX, good air cooling can make you a god. Now try getting that with Dothan, Cedar Mill or Bulldozer ))) I don't look at the scores, I solely look at card clocks. That's what this discussion is partially about. I wonder where you draw the line of this "x vs known overclocker"-thing I think you're talking about. Some people will probably pot Ramiro himself in category "x", at least before this discussion. Unless you're looking at extreme differences (like kingpin vs random guy with 2 submissions), it's hard to really tell who is just another mr x and who is not:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBeep2 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) @Monstru, you get no apology. I said you could have been right but the results looked suspicious, "because they were so damn good". You are very blunt in explanation but I also somewhat agree with this post: http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?p=170745#post170745 However there is a huge difference between "attack" and "discussing/asking based on premise". I've attacked nobody. I've said what I thought was suspicious, said what I thought it was, and waited for an explanation. I didn't come in here and say "nachtfalke and poparamiro are cheaters, proof is 4850/7970 result and changed vendor ID", but some people reacted as if I did. If I did that, it would be quite silly. Also, my questioning had nothing to do with questionable clocks reached (it seems a few people thought I was claiming they were fudging scores/clocks) OR score. It was a mix of the fact that both of them had super-cherry cards and exact same clocks. People like Iubitel/DanutzuAC/poparamiro at first replied, and contributed no explanation but many insults instead, only starting/fueling a fire. You, even played a part in the insults... nachtfalke cleared it up quickly and politely and apologized for the rudeness of his team members. So many people with huge e-penis and self worth here, also get extremely butthurt very easily, jesus christ... I think people don't need to fight or be agressive to be asked; is just show that's only a coincidence.People can solve the troubles in a polite way. ; +1 Edited May 2, 2012 by BeepBeep2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch Edited May 2, 2012 by Christian Ney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 vendor ID genetic mani PULA tion For Christ's sake, ban us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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