Rev3 Up and Running - Complaints, Ideas, Ramblings, Comments ... but no bugs

[Ol'Bud]

Monsieur COLARDYN,

 

Someone has given you biased input as to how you should proceed with the method of scoring;

They must have had an ulterior motive for doing so.

 

Stand-up and be your own man and make the system fair for all BenchMarkers and OverClockers at HWBOT.ORG.

 

New hardware, old hardware,

 

It doesn't matter;

It takes skills to complete the benches and get the screenshots and or online submittals to ORB accounts

Without the system seizing-up and or crashing because the GPU can't take the pressure of the online submittal.

 

MANY OF US ARE IN THE PROCESS OF ASSEMBLING NEW COOLING SYSTEMS TO CONTINUE TO BETTER OUR CURRENT SCORES,

 

I am one of those people with new equipment not yet assembled.

 

?? Are you being prejudiced against common man teams who run Budget Equipment and

 

Are Favoring those teams with members that have DEEP Pockets or lots of Money or are your inner circle of friends

Perhaps it is for the benefit of members who have donated cash to support the site HWBOT.ORG ??

 

I suggest a review by yourself as to the system of scoring,

You had a nice site and system of scoring before this Anal attempt to fix something that was not broken.

 

I guess the only satisfaction will be to just upload my results to my ORB ACCOUNT and keep the scores there for the RECORD

And post screenshots at another site for competitive advancement for items that are not uploadable to ORB.

 

You forgot;

It has to be fun,

Penalizing participants for the past efforts is as Mean-Spirited as it gets.

 

Mr.Clarke

[knopflerbruce]

I must say I don't understand all these complaints about rev. 3 being about $$$. For the millionth time: now you can bench older stuff and get lots of hardware boints in return (compared to before, where you would need a good chip and LN2 to compete in the popular categories), bench a cheaper single-core GPU (instead of a MUCH more expensive x2-GPU, or even worse - quad-GPU setups, which was the case in rev. 2).

 

The only place where we've actually removed boints are for rare hardware, and there are just too many personally related comments that all can be about those (or those CPUs/GPUs would be more popular than they are ).

 

What would be good to know is where you can extract "rev. 3 is for big bucks only" out of the changes, when this was what we focused most on when we made this new revision. As far as I can tell, you need less cash now than before to compete. Maybe more skills, but that's without a doubt a good thing.

 

As long as the "common bencher" also posts scores, the engine will automatically reward those benchmarks with more "slots" that receive boints, too - which will benefit the air/water benchers alot. The increase in number of boint-receiving results in general is insane, so it will be easier to get a little bit of boints than before.

[Matti OC]

was for Ol'Bud

Yes, even if you come from the other sides of the world, we are the community

 

lg Matti

 

PS: Pure,determines the system

Edited January 1, 2010 by Matti OC

[knopflerbruce]

was for Ol'Bud

Yes, even if you come from the other sides of the world, we are the community

 

lg Matti

 

PS: Pure,determines the system

 

Lmao, that last one is PURE fail. We were on first spot in the teams ranking - by a MILE, and now we're second... We also had 5 out of the top 11 in the global rankings, now we have 5 of the top 14. I believe we had one more in the top 20 as well, before the change.

 

We don't gain much from this, at all. And FYI there has been very little talk about "omg the system is so unfair, i wanna quit, i dont see the point anymore", and more in the direction of: "what do we have to do to take advantage of this new system?". I must say it's kinda weird if it's the lack of "giving-up" attitude that will lead us to the top...

[Matti OC]

If they know how much time it has cost, ( deutsch) um Hardware zum benchen, die zuvor nicht möglich war.

Nicht mit Riva oder mit Ati Tray Tool, nur rein aus gefühl und viel Zeit

[Brian y.]

bottom line is there is a new way to play the "game" here at hwbot.

 

Given some time and a steady flow of submissions post REV3 I assume everything should will fall into place correctly......

 

game on.

[packet]

cheers and happy new bench year to the hwbot team......btw rev.3 is off the hook

[Ol'Bud]

some random fun facts:

- NVIDIA paid HWbot

- it's all about the money

- rev3 is not about making benching more rewarding for those without expensive hardware.

 

none of these are true. Carry on, happy new year:D

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5MT-66lKl8

 

You need to spend more time on your own website;

At Madshrimps.com

 

http://madshrimps.com/

 

and quit dick-ing around here messing with people.

[dinos22]

Kovsk, SoF and a few others do make valid points. I just sat and read through 30 pages eek my eyes hurt. HWBOT has and will lose it's shine with this move............I am not really passionate about whichever way these decisions sway to argue vigorously but you do have to admit they are making some valid points...............not posting this to get a response...especially not from jmke...

 

I'll still use it sure.... just thought i'd put my 2 cents in there i guess

 

[edit] i really dont understand why you guys dont have a word with jmke.....seriously his posts are a joke

[Ol'Bud]

Kovsk, SoF and a few others do make valid points. I just sat and read through 30 pages eek my eyes hurt. HWBOT has and will lose it's shine with this move............I am not really passionate about whichever way these decisions sway to argue vigorously but you do have to admit they are making some valid points...............not posting this to get a response...especially not from jmke...

 

I'll still use it sure.... just thought i'd put my 2 cents in there i guess

 

[edit] i really dont understand why you guys dont have a word with jmke.....seriously his posts are a joke

 

Ditto !

[Matti OC]

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2010

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvS_-sQhFI

[Q56_Monster]

Until more scores are submitted in the multi card category, yes dual gpu cards wont get as much global points. As the number of submissions grow so will the global points.

 

 

 

Incorrect, lower gen models are where some of the biggest points are to be won! (8800gt, 8800gtx, 7 & 6 series nvidia, 38xx, etcetcetc)

 

 

 

Versus before when you had to have cpu on LN2 and 4x flagship top of the line gpus right? Nothing has changed... people on LN2 will still rule the ranks as they always have. Little guys arent crushed with this revision, in fact your awarded more since a greater number of the top submission in a category will now receive hwboints where they would not have before.

 

I don't agree. I am a little guy. I played by the rules and gathered 100 points in December, mostly on last gen gpu's, only to see them all but disappear now. I would have NEVER invested the time (and you know how much time this stuff takes), if I knew my efforts were a waste of time. What happens when I invest in hardware in '10, play by the new rules, only to have "someone" subjectively change them yet again?

 

Regarding your logic on multiple GPU scoring: Take my case as an example: My Quad GTX 295's lost half their value. I used to have 20+ vantage points, and now have around 10. While at the same time I actually gained a few points under the new rev. on my single card gtx 295 score, as I now have 25.8 points. It's obvious multiple gpu's will NEVER score points under this revision like the single cards. GTX295's have been out for a year now (almost), so you are saying I have to wait until more scores are submitted for my Quad run to be worth what it used to be worth? Will never happen. No one will chase low point values. Plus, I don't think there's going to be more 295 submissions, only less now that new tech has arrived. And of course more users will have single cards than multiple cards for future gpu's too, creating bigger points for the single cards. How would you like to break a world record with multiple gpu's only to have it be worth half as much as the single card guy? HWbot will now be a single card OC'ers site.

[Q56_Monster]

not sure if this is a bug or me just being stupid

 

how to i get a full list of my team mates

 

It's over on the right side of the page now.

[Q56_Monster]

cheers and happy new bench year to the hwbot team......btw rev.3 is off the hook

 

Hey packet, you have my old ranking. I used to be in the 530's up until yesterday. Now I'm 1,129! Yea for rev. 3!

[Ol'Bud]

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2010

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvS_-sQhFI

 

Thank you for the video,

Happy New Year young Man.

[Matti OC]

Thank you for the video' date='

Happy New Year young Man.[/quote']

 

Happy New Year

Edited January 1, 2010 by Matti OC

[eva2000]

I'm motivated because benching is fun. I like to contribute as much as possible to my team, no matter how much points that may be ... even if it's 0,1P.

 

You're making a great generalisation by stating that #1/2/3 is with LN2. Not a correct one. Furthermore, overclocking does involve tweaking with cooling and voltages ... it has been an inherent part of the game since the absolute beginning.

 

rev3 has now just divided that motivation into 2

- motivation to bench and aim for WRs in general = unchanged

- motivation to participate in hwbot = decreased for folks with higher end hardware or aims for WRs on hwbot

 

Clearly rev3 will need some revising as it's going to de-motivate alot of folks from further participation in hwbot as you can see by the issues folks are bringing up here so far.

 

At first, I thought splitting the gpus and cores down would give everyone a fighting chance in these broken down categories, but now with the revised point allocation based on hardware popularity - it has really made it less worthwhile to participate in.

 

At this rate, I don't see how 2x, 3x, 4x gpu and cpu core categories will ever become more popular than they are now as some of you have said 'wait and see once more 2010 submissions come in'.

 

Would the discrepancy between a WR/#1 ranking (in multi cpu/gpu) be further widened as more new submissions come in, now that folks realise there's no worthwhile gain in those and just bench the medium/last gen stuff which is more popular ? Yeah I know it will be a catch 22, if folks do that as it effectively ensures the less popular multi gpu/cpu categories remain unpopular with less points awarded.

 

Edit: what about hwbot API/XML feeds ? they undergoing improvements ? any chance of changing or offering xml using only elements without attributes ? makes accessing the data easier

 

from

 

<team>
<name>Team OCX</name>
<rank rank="1" hwboints="12991.80" participants="5210"/>
</team>

 

to

 

<team>
<name>Team OCX</name>
<rank>1</rank>
<hwboints>12991.80</hwboints>
<participants>5210</participants>
</team>

Edited January 1, 2010 by eva2000

[Booj]

My biggest problem with the new rev is the lack of reward for outright top scores.

 

For example Benchbrothers 06 world record deserves faaaaar more reward than it gets now. It gets 4.6 hw points and thats all!... Today I submit a 2yr old 8800gt single of 16k that gets 16.1 points for 94th in its category.. Tell me which is the better overclock..

 

The most prestigious overclocks are the outright world records or close to. That hwbot no longer recognizes this is plain wrong. Single gpu WR is nice and all, but they're not THE WR.

 

Another point.. under this system Gulftown cpus will score next to nothing in wprime.

 

overclocking socialism i tells ya!

 

eek

[jefreynnv]

Nice new layout! I like the new style but could you return the "expand result" function so I can easily compare different submissions on the same window.

[Bustah]

It's over on the right side of the page now.

it only shows top 20...

[Massman]

Hmmmm........Did you guys got payed by NVIDIA?.....

 

I have too much respect for Hipro to come up with a sarcastic answer or alternatively a aggressive answer. So, just a normal 'no'.

[Leeghoofd]

wouldn't it be better to create sort of idea box, to clearly see what people like/dislike, want to improve in the Rev3.

 

My vote goes for this :

 

1) better boints spread for top 10-15 ( no matter what hardware )

2) Cup awards again for top 3, medals for 4 and 5th place (in the hall of fame list)

3) WR scores top 10 need to be rewarded accordingly ( keep the nr of GPU's split like it is in Rev 3)

 

And sorry for those that lost a lot of points, I too lost all my SLI score points. ( and makes the cards i bought less rewardfull, but I try to bench anything I can get my hands on)

It's the new game, adapt to it. I prefer Rev 3, as I don't like being trounced by a dude that got the ability to buy 3 5XXXseries cards , runs them stock, backed up with a good CPU and gets awarded 30 points per benchmark for zero effort. If you payed big cash to get these points, sorry for you.

Understand that this had to be corrected in some way. Buying points is plain silly. Like you have a 1500Hp F1 car with auto braking and steering. And finishing in the top all the time, just having to keep the accelerator pressed all the time. Does that give you the feeling you really achieved something ? Does it justify the insane cash some have spend to gain some these easy points ? Maybe for you it does, to me it doesn't at all... Sadly this new system also has a bad influence on those that really pushed the envelope. Gaining 0.1 points for litres of LN2 mmmm , needs to be corrected

 

Give the new system some time, forget about the lost points and start to bench again, keeping the new system in mind ( hopefully with some slight alterations ) and let's all see how it evolves...

 

Anyway Happy New Year and chill...

[stealth]

Congrats for the good work.

 

The guys in bot put a lot of efford and gave their best for rev.3 so we need to give it at least a month time to see how it works before we judge it.

 

I lost 100 points and over 400 places in rankings is well but this is not the point, the problem is that i am totally confuse and i don't know what is worth to bench now.Is it worth to bench my old s478 CPUs and GPUs any more or is it better to go for newer stuff?

 

Happy new year guys.

 

stealth

[Ries]

First I want to say happy new year to all of you.

 

And I do have respect for the moderators who'll worked 48 hrs to make the v3 working.

 

But I dislike this version.

It was fun to buy some cheap stuff from tweakers or someting simular.

And sometimes it would give you 1.5 points or so.

Now it will give you 0.1 points.

The hwbot top players will stay on top always and that's good.

But i am a simple overclocker with my own budget and no sponsoring.

I think the most of us are like me.

With low budget get some points with older hardware.

This version is for the very rich or the players with sponsors.

And the "normal" players will leave, because it's no fun anymore to bench and get 0.1 points with rank nr 7 with your hardware.

And when the normal players leave there wil be much less "hits" on HWbot.

And then the sponsors will quitte also in some time with less hits on HWbot.

Wich is not good for the top players.

So in a while you will see there is no HWbot without us.

But when people are gone it's difficult to get them back to HWbot.

So I think it's better to make the "older" Hardware worth more points like in V2.

 

Greetz Ries

[Massman]

The bottom line of this story is, quite frankly, that a lot of people fail to see what this new revision is about and get stuck when trying to compare the points they got in Rev2 and the points they got in Rev3. There's no way to compare points because:

 

- Algorithms have changed

- There's no such thing as a definition of the 'HWBoint'; stating you deserve X amount has no meaning if there's no way to assign value to X/X (=1).

 

Furthermore, it seems to me that complaints are coming from all directions and is even contradicting itself. Some think this is all about mediocrity, some think it's all about money, some think you always need LN2 ... bottom line: everyone wants more points (not rank) for less effort. The main principle of the new algorithm is that points are awarded:

 

- If you compete directly to competitors with same hardware -> less money required

- If you want easy points and do little effort -> more money required

 

The Overclockers League, our main feature, has always been about the first group of people: those who are in competition with a lot of other people and those who are pushing their system to the absolute maximum. The fact that you need LN2 to be in the top rankings is just normal. For those who don't get the reason why 1xGPU should be awarded more points, think about this: If you are 1st in 10th in 1xGPU, having clock your entire system on LN2, you would receive an equal amount of points as the person who is 10th in the 4xGPU, who has his cards on stock air cooling and possibly only the CPU overclocked. Although the overall score might be better, the skill of being 10th in 1x is way greater than being 10th in 4x, in whatever way you look at it. There's no way how you can justify rewarding running stock air on the cards equally as running LN2 on another card.

 

For those who claim it's all about the money, think about this:

 

When a next generation of CPUs and GPUs enter the retail market, you'll notice that your GTX295 and HD4870X2 and 5970 scores will drop rapidly. In order to get those global points back, you'd have to invest in another dual-GPU card. However, with the new revision, since single GPU clearly is more competitive, you'd only have to spend money on a single GPU card, which is remarkably cheaper than a dual gpu card. All about the money? Think again.

 

Furthermore, to get in the top of hwbot, you don't even have to spend a lot of money if you're willing to push the system you have. I've seen this comment by an overclocker just today:

 

gomeler']Ok' date=' not 700 points, 670 points. Found both cards on ebay for a grand total of $172.[/quote']

 

That's right: $172 and you have a 670p potential setup. Admitted, loads of competition in these categories!

 

In respect to the harware points: previously, it seemed to be a custom for people who didn't want to go into competition to just search for a non-popular card OR just have another harware category added for 2 points. No real effort was needed to get those 2 points; in fact, no real effort was needed just to stay in the top-20 for non-popular hardware. This is something which is in battle with what overclocking should be about: pushing the system, trying to catch the one in front of you ... not randomly testing a given setup and hope you get some points. The 0.1p you receive wasn't even supposed to be in the Rev3, it has been added as an incentive for new members to increase their points.

 

In the end, we may apply some minor changes to the hwboints algorithm, but major changes will only be done if we have a clear view on what happens exactly. This requires time, a lot of time. So, for the unhappy people I can only suggest:

 

- Test out the new Rev3 and see in what way you need to change your benching strategy

- If you don't like the points, make your account "bointless" and just submit scores for personal reference

- If you really don't like it anymore, log off and don't log in anymore