Why i not benching for hwbot?

[psdoria]

The reason to be writing this letter is to be indignated by different measures used by HWBOT in order to protected John Lam, even though he has admittedly stolen results.

In other same or similar,cases the punishments were banishment for a year, added the removal of all the points and now Massman says Hwbot gave "ONLY ONE MONTH" ban and no longer discussiont.

Lets go to the facts.

Were disclosed and reported by Slamms, several clearly identical results in different situations, when HWBOT was to investigate the veracity of them.

Despite being nearly 100% sure of these results have been provided by MAD , there was a very very small chance that it was a coincidence (for me, an absurd coincidence, but HWBOT checked even the possibility of a Gigabyte board able to do the ram frequencies ... and was discovered a way it could protect John Lam).

But hwbot did not protect a Spi32 result which admittedly was stolen (sorry, "mistaked").

Stolen indeed ... to say that story that has published the result of another, and even called all oveclockers this house of naive or fools, because nobody in their consciousness fill all fields and publish a fantastic result 'by mistake'.

Once discovered that there was a mistake (theft results), why still HWBOT protects others identical results and obvious?

Does HWBOT really believes he can be a result published by mistake???

Does any overclocker believes can publish a fantastic result by mistake???

Does any overclocker believed in coincidences of a person who posted a score fantastc by mistake??? and now the other identical results can not be proved.

There's more.

When a similar situation happened to others overclockers, there was 1 year punishment and a removal all hwboints.

Assuming the ridiculous hypothesis have been a mistake (which we all know is not true), why others who did the same mistakenly posted had punishments more severe?

It is clear that for some reason the HWBOT is protecting John Lam .. what did not happen with Andre Yang, members of Russia, Brazil, Mexico, LOC, eg. that were in similar situations and received punishments much more tight.

Believe or want to make others believe that you can post a result of another is underestimate the intelligence of the people.

Believe that a person who did this, with so many other identical results, held only once a swindle like that is underestimate the intelligence of the people.

Believe that people deserve punishments and different alternatives for committing the same mistake, diminishes the credibility of HWBOT, which is the official organ of overclockers the world.

 

@ Slamms - thumbs up for showing everyone the face of the true

@ HWBOT- thumbs down for having showning yourselfes as partial and protective to some overclockers , it is a really bad attitude.

 

> For those who wonder why I'm writing my first post on the first topic, simply say that for obvious reasons I do not want to appear as someone who wants to gossip, but to open the eyes of a great truth.

[GENiEBEN]

And the world stopped because of this incident, seriously now.

[Eeky NoX]

Hey! Is there someone able to help me for another popcorn cargo shipping to Europe?

 

... Nobody's bored but me? -.-

[M.Beier]

And the world stopped because of this incident, seriously now.

 

I am lead to believe that this incident is the main course why I am without a toilet, so, my world collapsed due this thread as well.

[Christian Ney]

Hey! Is there someone able to help me for another popcorn cargo shipping to Europe?

 

... Nobody's bored but me? -.-

 

I see what you mean and where this is going

 

Up for a movie? coming in 5 got popcorn left :celebration:

Edited September 10, 2012 by Christian Ney

[Eeky NoX]

I see what you mean and where this is going

 

Up for a movie? coming in 5 got popcorn left

 

That's how we recognise real brothers! C'mon!! :celebration:

 

@Marc: want some paper?

[Christian Ney]

That's how we recognise real brothers! C'mon!! :celebration:

 

Salt or sweet ?

 

@Marc: want some paper?

 

He doesn't use paper

[M.Beier]

I found an entirely new purpose for LN2 pots.... Unlike plastic bags, they do not bend, and its very easy to aim.

I got plenty of paper though!

[Eeky NoX]

OP! We're talking about popcorn here mistress Beer!

 

Salt Chris, thank you my dear

 

Edit: great answer Roman, me like

Edited September 10, 2012 by Eeky NoX
Some staff members can write clean and right...

[der8auer]

> For those who wonder why I'm writing my first post on the first topic, simply say that for obvious reasons I do not want to appear as someone who wants to gossip, but to open the eyes of a great truth.

 

@ HWBOT- thumbs down for having showning yourselfes as partial and protective to some overclockers , it is a really bad attitude.

 

 

In your words "thumbs down" for not showing your real identity. But meh - let's start

 

 

The reason to be writing this letter is to be indignated by different measures used by HWBOT in order to protected John Lam, even though he has admittedly stolen results.

 

There is no similar incident. If you find one - let me know (mind the rules change within the time, which Massman already explaind)

 

In other same or similar,cases the punishments were banishment for a year, added the removal of all the points and now Massman says Hwbot gave "ONLY ONE MONTH" ban and no longer discussiont.

 

Still waiting for similar cases...

 

Lets go to the facts.

Were disclosed and reported by Slamms, several clearly identical results in different situations, when HWBOT was to investigate the veracity of them.

Despite being nearly 100% sure of these results have been provided by MAD , there was a very very small chance that it was a coincidence (for me, an absurd coincidence, but HWBOT checked even the possibility of a Gigabyte board able to do the ram frequencies ... and was discovered a way it could protect John Lam).

 

Do you know the saying "benefit of the doubt"?. To quote you: "being nearly100% sure..."

So you expect us to ban him just because it's possible that some sharing happened. What about if not? Would you feel good getting banned for a year then?

As long as there is not 100% proof we will not play community-witch-hunt-games.

 

 

But hwbot did not protect a Spi32 result which admittedly was stolen (sorry, "mistaked").

Stolen indeed ... to say that story that has published the result of another, and even called all oveclockers this house of naive or fools, because nobody in their consciousness fill all fields and publish a fantastic result 'by mistake'.

Once discovered that there was a mistake (theft results), why still HWBOT protects others identical results and obvious?

 

I have twice the same 3770K (same batch!) and they both do a maximum of 6750 MHz at the same voltage.

They have several CPUs with same batch - so why would it not be possible for them?

 

 

Does HWBOT really believes he can be a result published by mistake???

Does any overclocker believes can publish a fantastic result by mistake???

Does any overclocker believed in coincidences of a person who posted a score fantastc by mistake??? and now the other identical results can not be proved.

 

He had a result with 4min 50s done with his ES he normally used. Why would he submit a 4min 49s score and risking a ban for 1s? Doesn't sound plausible to me.

 

 

There's more.

When a similar situation happened to others overclockers, there was 1 year punishment and a removal all hwboints.

Assuming the ridiculous hypothesis have been a mistake (which we all know is not true), why others who did the same mistakenly posted had punishments more severe?

It is clear that for some reason the HWBOT is protecting John Lam .. what did not happen with Andre Yang, members of Russia, Brazil, Mexico, LOC, eg. that were in similar situations and received punishments much more tight.

 

Their cases were completely different. Why do you keep comparing apples with oranges?

[knopflerbruce]

The reason to be writing this letter is to be indignated by different measures used by HWBOT in order to protected John Lam, even though he has admittedly stolen results.

In other same or similar,cases the punishments were banishment for a year, added the removal of all the points and now Massman says Hwbot gave "ONLY ONE MONTH" ban and no longer discussiont.

Lets go to the facts.

Were disclosed and reported by Slamms, several clearly identical results in different situations, when HWBOT was to investigate the veracity of them.

Despite being nearly 100% sure of these results have been provided by MAD , there was a very very small chance that it was a coincidence (for me, an absurd coincidence, but HWBOT checked even the possibility of a Gigabyte board able to do the ram frequencies ... and was discovered a way it could protect John Lam).

But hwbot did not protect a Spi32 result which admittedly was stolen (sorry, "mistaked").

Stolen indeed ... to say that story that has published the result of another, and even called all oveclockers this house of naive or fools, because nobody in their consciousness fill all fields and publish a fantastic result 'by mistake'.

Once discovered that there was a mistake (theft results), why still HWBOT protects others identical results and obvious?

Does HWBOT really believes he can be a result published by mistake???

Does any overclocker believes can publish a fantastic result by mistake???

Does any overclocker believed in coincidences of a person who posted a score fantastc by mistake??? and now the other identical results can not be proved.

There's more.

When a similar situation happened to others overclockers, there was 1 year punishment and a removal all hwboints.

Assuming the ridiculous hypothesis have been a mistake (which we all know is not true), why others who did the same mistakenly posted had punishments more severe?

It is clear that for some reason the HWBOT is protecting John Lam .. what did not happen with Andre Yang, members of Russia, Brazil, Mexico, LOC, eg. that were in similar situations and received punishments much more tight.

Believe or want to make others believe that you can post a result of another is underestimate the intelligence of the people.

Believe that a person who did this, with so many other identical results, held only once a swindle like that is underestimate the intelligence of the people.

Believe that people deserve punishments and different alternatives for committing the same mistake, diminishes the credibility of HWBOT, which is the official organ of overclockers the world.

 

@ Slamms - thumbs up for showing everyone the face of the true

@ HWBOT- thumbs down for having showning yourselfes as partial and protective to some overclockers , it is a really bad attitude.

 

> For those who wonder why I'm writing my first post on the first topic, simply say that for obvious reasons I do not want to appear as someone who wants to gossip, but to open the eyes of a great truth.

 

So, you don't find it reasonable that it's a mistake when a) he found his own score after being notified about this and b) the time difference between the runs was 1s only?

 

I just don't see any reason at all why ANY bencher would cheat to gain one tiny second in a benchmark that lasts for 5 minutes. It makes no sense - if you think it through you'll probably agree.

 

I have yet to see anyone being punished for score stealing when it's proven beyond any doubt that they did in fact have a similar score done with a different chip, a chip that was not previously used to post results at HWBot, at least not for the same benchmark. Please, dig through the archives and show me a similar case. In fact, I'm thinking that the huge rant here actually made him receive a ban at all - honest mistakes should never be a reason for banning users, his results were posted in good faith. Being a high profiled bencher is also a lame excuse, we should ask the same for all members - that's really the only double standard I see here. John Lam gets 1 month for this, and some average Joe with 15 points would probably get a warning at most...

 

Similar screenshots have never really been enough to ban as well. ALL sharing cases since rev. 4 was introduced have required proof beyond the usual fact that "the screenshots look similar".

[TaPaKaH]

Why does the "background" matter? An accidental/uninentional score sharing is still score sharing.

 

I seem to be not alone who finds it funny how in some situations hwbot staff bother with seeking for/considering penalty softening arguments like with John Lam (oh, he had a close score himself, oh, he is close to hwbot sponsors, oh, he is actually an experienced bencher) while in others, like with 12 and Diabolo, one (accidentally?) shared pair of screenshots was enough to instantly issue 1 year ban for BOTH guys without long discussion/hesitation.

[knopflerbruce]

OK, if Diabolo and 12 can show screenshots which prove that they indeed have different cards maybe we have a case, but they never provided such a thing back then. I'm not talking about different brand here, but something similar to the ES/retail difference in GPUZ - something that cannot be changed unless you have VERY exotic tools. If such a thing cannot be provided, there's your explanation.

 

JL had a close score that was PROVEN to be done with a different chip. That's kind of a vital point here. If he had one with a retail chip, his ban would probably be longer than 1 month (I think the new standard for stealing a single score is somewhere between 3 and 6 months), and that's what we'd be looking at. He was lucky that he in fact used an ES, but being lucky is allowed. It's not up to US to prove that a score is wrong, it's up to the users to prove that what they do is indeed legit, and JL proved that he indeed had a very similar score to the one that was questioned.

 

It's funny how everyone commenting here refuses to mention the motivation behind posting a 4.44min score instead of his own 4.45min. I know the answer: it would ruin most of the logic people try to use here - there is NOTHING to gain. If you effectively have NO gain, and only a long ban to look forward to, why on earth do it? It makes sense if you want a 1st global result, and you're currently 10th, but I don't know if JL even gained a single spot in the ranking at that time. Probably not, given the time difference between his run, and the one originally posted.

 

Maybe what Diabolo and 12 did was an accident - but they failed to provide sufficient proof that it wasn't. JL did just that.

[TaPaKaH]

Lack of motivation is not a legit excuse for an offense. For example, I doubt that if I now go out and murder a random pedestrian I will be able to get away with only 1 month of public service even if I manage to prove that the crime was pointless.

 

Besides, you have just mentioned in the last line of your previous post that hwbot no longer accepts mutual argumentation in questions of hardware sharing, so what "solid proof" made hwbot actually believe it was not a coordinated result sharing scheme?

[knopflerbruce]

If you're a student at school and grab the wrong sweather after gym class, and the only difference between the sweathers is a brand logo on the inside of the hood, I highly doubt you'd be expelled.

 

You'd get alot less time in prison if you could prove that what you did was done 100% unintentionally rather than something you planed to do beforehand. The fact that there was absolutely no connection between the killer and the victim is vital.

 

You mean the JL case? The fact that he had the correct screenshot on his usb stick or whatever, and that the times were so close it could make sense to mix them up. If it was indeed a "coordinated result" he wouldn't have done had that ES 32m run for obvious reasons.

[rbuass]

Sorry, but I have enough reason to post.

Please...do you REALLY believe is a "mistake"???.

Can a professional overclocker with fantastic scores make this kind of mistakes?

I am not talking about punishment, ban, and others...just talking I do not believe it's a mistake.

What Hwbot will do or not to do, is not my problem, but I see real arguiments here.

If you don't give no one punishment, Is not my problem.

I just complained before because when it happens with us, we were forced to prove something that there were no one proof.

Now, I understand all the guys was complaining.

[knopflerbruce]

Can a random noob do such a mistake?

[der8auer]

It's not the job of the HWBot staff to "belive".

 

We try to be as neutral as possible, collect the facts and see what actually happened.

[rbuass]

Can a random noob do such a mistake?

Yes sure...a noob have no experience to post.

But a Team member from the Top Dogs league, for sure, know what is your own results and what is not made from him.

Further... we are talking about only one of the lots of coincidences.

I was forced to bench 2 times to go to MOA, because people found coincidences...and NOBODY has no one proof.

For now, there are a shared result...that's the question

[Massman]

-snip-

 

You can read the entire explanation on WHY the decision was taken here: http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?p=194538&postcount=191. You will find a lengthy text pointing out exactly why HWBOT does not ban members based on rumours, but actually takes the time and effort to go through all the arguments and see if they check out.

 

It's really cool you know "the truth", but I prefer to use objective information to make conclusions.

 

Thanks!

[Massman]

Sorry, but I have enough reason to post.

Please...do you REALLY believe is a "mistake"???.

 

Yes.

 

Mainly because there's a 4min 50s run with the ES he said he was benching with and the other score with 4min 49s. There's 1 second difference ...

[Splave]

 

It's funny how everyone commenting here refuses to mention the motivation behind posting a 4.44min score instead of his own 4.45min. I know the answer: it would ruin most of the logic people try to use here - there is NOTHING to gain. If you effectively have NO gain, and only a long ban to look forward to, why on earth do it? It makes sense if you want a 1st global result, and you're currently 10th, but I don't know if JL even gained a single spot in the ranking at that time. Probably not, given the time difference between his run, and the one originally .

 

Maybe he figured people would use logic such as yourself in his own defense if there is a problem. Also at the top you don't always post scores for a gain in points but for protection of your points. Lastly I think it's part of Asian culture that 2nd is the first loser and being far from the best time by even one second looks bad on you.

[slamms]

Sorry, but I have enough reason to post.

Please...do you REALLY believe is a "mistake"???.

Can a professional overclocker with fantastic scores make this kind of mistakes?

I am not talking about punishment, ban, and others...just talking I do not believe it's a mistake.

What Hwbot will do or not to do, is not my problem, but I see real arguiments here.

If you don't give no one punishment, Is not my problem.

I just complained before because when it happens with us, we were forced to prove something that there were no one proof.

Now, I understand all the guys was complaining.

 

well said, Ronaldo!

[Massman]

Sorry, but I have enough reason to post.

Please...do you REALLY believe is a "mistake"???.

Can a professional overclocker with fantastic scores make this kind of mistakes?

I am not talking about punishment, ban, and others...just talking I do not believe it's a mistake.

What Hwbot will do or not to do, is not my problem, but I see real arguiments here.

If you don't give no one punishment, Is not my problem.

I just complained before because when it happens with us, we were forced to prove something that there were no one proof.

Now, I understand all the guys was complaining.

 

Hey, do you believe it's possible that someone steals benchmark results from a USB drive and then uploads them to his own account without the other person knowing? Or would that be too much of a coincidence?

 

[rbuass]

Hey, do you believe it's possible that someone steals benchmark results from a USB drive and then uploads them to his own account without the other person knowing? Or would that be too much of a coincidence?

 

 

Yes,,, mainly if his own confirm that did it...

And...for sure...be banned more than one month for this