MOA 2013 Discussion

[cyclone]

I think no one blames you Vivi -) It was fun till one day.

 

[off]p.s. cyclone. Still don't understand why many spell it like Cyclone. Just copy-paste the account name, don't make things too compicated [/off]

[Vivi]

I think no one blames you Vivi -) It was fun till one day.

 

[off]p.s. cyclone. Still don't understand why many spell it like Cyclone. Just copy-paste the account name, don't make things too compicated [/off]

 

lol kk cyclone.

 

yea sorry im just getting all tensed up about this round, feel little like an ass

[Xtreme Addict]

lol kk cyclone.

 

yea sorry im just getting all tensed up about this round, feel little like an ass

 

 

Vivi I totally understand you. I know what it is like to really want take part in the contest. I was also whining as a girl when first set of rules was published (qualifier was worth half eaten potato).

 

But in your case problem isn't Titan, because you bought it. Epower will be very soon (few days) - you will have time to mod it and do results for MOA Semi Final. So what's the problem? You don't have skills to mod it or it's too expensive?

 

If you don't have skills... PRACTICE! test it on cheap VGA, upgrade your soldering skills and so on on dead hw... It's MOA, only best ocers should participate.

 

If it's too expensive... but you bought Titan... so? Epower in EU shop is listed for 90 EURO. It;s nothing compared to other hardware. You will also lose warranty doing vmods and burning stock VRM...

[Perica_barii]

Vivi, you are not to blame for this, but the good question is who should we thank for this beautiful rule?

[Vivi]

Vivi I totally understand you. I know what it is like to really want take part in the contest. I was also whining as a girl when first set of rules was published (qualifier was worth half eaten potato).

 

But in your case problem isn't Titan, because you bought it. Epower will be very soon (few days) - you will have time to mod it and do results for MOA Semi Final. So what's the problem? You don't have skills to mod it or it's too expensive?

 

If you don't have skills... PRACTICE! test it on cheap VGA, upgrade your soldering skills and so on on dead hw... It's MOA, only best ocers should participate.

 

If it's too expensive... but you bought Titan... so? Epower in EU shop is listed for 90 EURO. It;s nothing compared to other hardware. You will also lose warranty doing vmods and burning stock VRM...

 

nono i bought evbot and pre-ordered epower, i was amped. no problems with epower

[Xtreme Addict]

nono i bought evbot and pre-ordered epower, i was amped. no problems with epower

 

oohhh

 

okay good, that's the spirit!

[ryba AICooling]

Video sounds like a good idea.

 

How many people are opposed to this? Please present your opinions in the most rude manner possible!

 

No cam, no web cam, no money to buy it and I can't arrange it for free from some one. So I say no.

[cyclone]

No cam, no web cam, no money to buy it and I can't arrange it for free from some one. So I say no.

To be fair - might be good for non-validable 2D (if EVbot'll be finally allowed) but it rly takes time and makes angry when benching alone. Too complicated for me too though 'm not challenging.

Edited June 28, 2013 by cyclone

[Wizerty]

Really... Epower forbidden, and Video needed ????

I already bought a Titan and put Epower on it... Can someone explain me how I can solder coil and restart IC after cutting the trace ?

Who can refund me ? MSI ?

 

As a lot of other people already said, some OCer used epower for 1st round, so you have to BAN

 

and if you request a video, please buy me a cam, I don't have the stuff for doing that, me cellphone is old, really old, I don't have webcam...

And I have only 2 hand.... how can I do to :

flood CPU pot (with CB)...

flood GPU pot (with CB)...

Tweak OS, set frequency, make screen shot...

And make a video ????? MAO is for human or I missed something ? Remember that you don't want TEAM bench, so with 2 hands It's to difficult.

 

 

If video and Epower are not allowed, I ask for a new rule. I want a video, where we can see :

- MB/ CPU step / Stock VRM,

- Overclocker face and body (to be sure that is really him who use the computer)

- Video with the overcloker making Vmod (to be sure that is really him who make Vmod)

- Video with the overclocker installing windows

- Video with the overclocker buying the stuff

- Video showing he is alone during bench session....

 

It's really a shame, I'am alone, I make all the mode alone, bench alone, I already buy and mod titan and now I have to put 1000$ on the recycling bin, buy a new one, and push it until the dead.

 

If rules stay like that (video + epower forbidden), I think you can forget me... it's really a shame, spending so many time/money for nothing.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Wizerty

[thebanik]

Though I do not have even money for Titan but I would say I vote against video to prove use of Epower, basically Epower should be allowed.

[Vivi]

If a rule change must happen, i think MSI should have the competitors who made it to semi's vote first. because we worked hard to get here

[Massman]

@ massman....I Always respected you.... But this time I think you should take Care more about the feeling of the community you rappresent and wich made hwbot grow up ��

 

There are things I cannot change, no matter how much I care ...

[rbuass]

Really... Epower forbidden, and Video needed ????

I already bought a Titan and put Epower on it... Can someone explain me how I can solder coil and restart IC after cutting the trace ?

 

Is possible...

We turn back a to original

Welding the pin 2 to the eighth pin on the underside of the PWM, and it will work.

 

Check the point with multimeter.

[cyclone]

There are things I cannot change, no matter how much I care ...

Just try..

 

There could not be a better promo for EVGA Epower than MSI's ban for MOA contest this way if it still happens. 10-20 pros would use it silently but now millions may learn magic 'Epower' word from the news on the 1st of July 2013.

[Xtreme Addict]

In fact, now after few Haswell deaths, during cooling down, during OS installing on default and so on, I am more sorry for participants to use Haswell than problems with Epowers

[T0lsty]

EPower or any sort of custom non-MSI branded external PWM is not allowed

 

Massman

Lets clarify this .

1 . msi dont have any external pwm , so ext pwm is not allowed at all .

2 . or we can use pwm from any video card with msi label on it ?

[T0lsty]

and I hope at 01.07.2013 all rules will be updated with all necessary requirements , and wont be changed in the middle.

as it was this winter with msi contest ..

[der8auer]

Massman

Lets clarify this .

1 . msi dont have any external pwm , so ext pwm is not allowed at all .

2 . or we can use pwm from any video card with msi label on it ?

 

The rule says no external VRM from a different vendor than MSI.

 

So just cut a old lightning like GTX 580 and use that one as external VRM. Should be fine or?

[giorgioprimo]

Well, this is first time I’ll try to make a so long post because I usually try to spend my time benching or testing hardware, and after work and family I have little spare time to dedicate to my hobby.

Besides that, I usually don’t wink in discussion like that, I just like to stay out and after everything is decided I just take my decision, but this time I’m really really mad about all this thing, and about the way somebody are driving this thing. We are not puppets to use as you like and dislike

 

My english is not so good so I will try to express my thought with a kind of list:

Round 1 after a long discussion was allowed to use Titan and haswell and it was already a rules change regard to the first rule (titan forbidden)

1) Nobody told anything about use epower or any other external pwm

2) Nobody told anything about how to check the use of just retail haswell

3) Nobody told anything about the chance to change the benchmark and hardware

Round one class A winner (EMEA) used epower

1) Nobody told anything about that

Round 2: Vivi started this discussion asking what you like or don’t like.

That is why I don’t like your way Vivi:

Was already decided that Titan was allowed and nobody told anything about benchmark.

Results of the discussion was to change benchmark ion class B and forbid use no MSI external PWM.

 

CLASS B

Change benchmark (IMHO) is disrespectful to the competitors because is not gonna be anymore a cheap way to join the competition, people which already spend money to bin a 3570 now need to bin also a 2600…which is an old technology, and have no sense for a new competition about new technology…. So why change the benchmark during the competition ??

Forbid the use of epower is again disrespectful, because to find now a 560 448 is pretty difficult, and those who have a regular 560 cannot use an external (excluding MSI ….. 580 lightning is still expensive) pwm to make it stronger …..@ THE ORGANIZATOR /REPSONSIBLE/MARKETING PEOPLE /AND SO ON….Do you know how much expensive is that and how much time it keep ?

 

CLASS A

People bought titan and epower, and modded vga. Just because for a logic way, nobody said anything about epower.

Let’s take my case:

I have 2 titan already properly modded (2000 euro value plus 500 euro form hardware and modding time), yes, I’m already well prepared (what is bad about that ? rules were clear from day one ….so what is the problem if I wanna be competitive to try to get my ticket?)

I also have a working 580 lightning (200 euro value) and a working 7970 lightning (300 euro value).

Now I should unmod the vga, (risking to kill them) kill my 580 or 7970 lightning and try to find the right way to connect it to my titan (if they are still alive).

That is because somebody ( I don’t understand who and why) dosen’t like (just now ???? couldn’t you think about that before starting competition ?) external pwm from any other manufacturer ?

@ THE ORGANIZATOR /REPSONSIBLE/MARKETING PEOPLE /AND SO ON….Do you know how much expensive is that and how much time it keep ? Do you think this is a kind of respect of the OC community? To get a ticket to Taipei ?? Do you think it is worth?

Yes I like to compete, but not at this cost . YOU should consider that and made the rules clear for each stage from day one

 

@ rules and organization

1) rules must be clear and fixed from day one

2) for 2 stage competition, you should have told from day one, clearly what are the benchmark for stage one and what are the benchmark for stage 2.

What is allowed for stage one and what is not allowed for stage 2.

If you don’t like to use external pwm you MUST tell from day one before all the competition starts.

To respect the competitors who join (all of them) you must allow them to plan the way to challenge from day one to the end, because a competition like that is extremely competitive, and extremely expensive . Much more expensive that the prize which you provide.

And again is absolutely disrespectful (even for the money anybody already spent) to change the LOGICAL rules just 2 days before the second round of a competition (even if you reserve the chance to change any rules without advice when you like….)

 

@ use or not use some other brand pwm

anybody knows that the only other brand pwm which we are talking about is epower.

At this point the THE ORGANIZATOR /REPSONSIBLE/MARKETING PEOPLE /AND SO ON IMHO, could only say if is possible to use external pwm or no possible to use external pwm.

Say that is possible to use just MSI external PWM is no respectful, no democratic , no fair to those people which already spent money (lot of money…..and this is not a joke)

If you still insist to use MSI pwm you MUST provide dead lightning to anybody of us and the scheme about the way to wire and use it. I don’t know lot of people able to do that themselves, and again, 2 days before competition starts, is extremely disrespectful

Somebody can say that is possible to use 2900xt external pwm ……but HOW TO CHECK THAT THIS IS FROM MSI BRAND ??

 

@about validation

if you ask to not use external pwm (no any external pwm) you need a movie to prove it, it must be High Res movie and must be also for 2D benchmark because if I will see 6400 mhz and more 32m with retail haswell, I promise I will find a golden titan to run 1800 on stock pwm.

The movie must be without cut, and exactly show the score to be validated……this gonna be ridiculous LOL

 

@ MASSMAN

no man……it is too simple to say “there are thing I cannot change” YOU are the guarantor of this comeptition, you should have thought all this mess before the competition starts and dialed with MSI CLARELY RULES AND DECISION. YOU should have explained to them what is right and not right for the OC community and OC spirit and OC fun (as you always talked in the past), without giving the competitors chance to make discussion like that. And…..you shouldn’t have accepted compromise if the rules were not clearly stated from day one…….

So no, please besides the way which this thing will take, and beside the MSI decision tell us what is your own opinion about:

1)change rules in the middle of competition

2) change benchmark in the middle of competition

3)allow or disallow other brand external pwm (in the middle of competition)

4)transform class B in something quite expensive like class A

 

@MSI

I would like to see and OFFICIAL PR clearly telling us in a crystal way the rules for this fxxxxxing round 2…….please

 

@all the competitors (EMEA, APAC, AMERICA)

please take the patience to read this my post and say what you think about that…….

 

PS from wen I start to overclock and joined HWBOT that is the really first time that I feel myself so mad, so angry so….. fxxxxxing heavily teased

and this is not because i wnat absolutly to take a ticket (even with the use of epower there are more stronger competitors than me) it is because i don't like to feel myself being treated like a monkey...........

Edited June 28, 2013 by giorgioprimo

[Viss]

Very good post my friend, MSI should be in charge of MOA and HWBOT should concentrate on their core business, the rankings.

[Vivi]

Everything you posted made sense giorgio, i have always had big respects for you since i started overclocking in 2006.

 

You're right, it should just stay as it was. Titan + epower. I hope massman can explain to MSI to keep it the same as it was. Maybe just cover the evga sticker on epower. But it sounds like this was mostly MSI's in-house decision, if their discussion was sparked by this thread i'm damn sorry that they came to this strange conclusion and new rule

 

I understand your frustration. I hope it turns out to be in your favor so we can both have a beer in taipei (if i make it).

[icebob]

Just to make it clear,class B is fine with me, hardware stay the same and as far as I'm aware nobody use an epower on their 7790 in first round! New benches is cool as it will make it more fun than just repeat scores from first round. Bulldozer/piledriver would have crush 3570 in wprime anyway.2600/2700 was allowed in first round anyway so, raiding the classies adds to try to find a good one right now... better than binning titans/780!!!I totally don't agree with rule change for class A... modding have been the root of oc, so to ban epower/ non msi vrm is a nonsense to me. I even don't understand the ban of 780 lightning... 780 are out, and a lightning is just another flavor... we can just feel lucky that a certain competitor already have his ticket to finals cause hwbot server would have not been able to stay on top of the whining...

[Hazzan]

Great Post my friend Giorgio...

[Gyrock]

Thanks giorgio for your info! I just noticed that the rules have changed for semi-final by your PM.

I agree with you that the rule must not change just before the competition's start.

No I have to think what I can do and what I can't do with the new rules. Quitting form the competition? Yeah maybe one possibility, haha

[Massman]

Just try..

 

It takes all my strength to not put up a really angry reply to this one, but do you really think I didn't explain this (about a dozen times)? Of course it is not possible for me to put email threads out in public, so I cannot "prove" anything.