HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[BenchZowner]

Check your e-mail my trusty friend Deanzo.

[Guest cowgut]

witness relocation for you bz.

 

ok some ?

1. how does rev4 better hwbot and it members

2. how does this effect non extreme benchers/teams

3.will this cause more divide then unity within the teams/community.

4.is this the only way to deal with"known hardware sharers"

5 can you post up some reconfigured team/member scores with the rev4 to get a better idea how thing will work?

[BenchZowner]

4. Lifetime ban.

So the next guy thinks twice about it before doing it.

[der8auer]

Yeah.

 

Kinda defeats the 'making hardware sharing non-beneficial', though.

 

Would really appreciate this solution! Bit still there should be a vote. Just to show the direction how the communitiy wants it!

 

 

 

4. What about not "making hardware sharing non-beneficial" but "making hardware sharing less beneficial, but still encouraging the grinders on 2nd/3rd/4th etc place"? What do you think about a scalable formula which reduces the points added for the team ranking, but doesn´t work like a binary system (simplified: hero or zero). If the winner contributes all points, could #2 mabye contribute 50 % and #3 25 % etc.? You could even limit the maximal amount, e.g. 1/3 of all points available in the specific hardware category or link the percentage to the points gathered by the team`s #1 in this category. So if your #1 gets 10 points, #2 results can only add 5 points to the team result, but if #1 gets 20 points, #2 can add 10 points already. There are a lot of possibilites here to find a balanced middle course. Hardware sharing is a problem, but as already explained by others it is rather a problem on individual basis not on a team basis (reason included in 1. - read again if necessary)

 

5. Is it possible to get a own sub-forum for team captains and hwbot staff only? Everytime there´s a new thread about major changes it gets interrupted by offtopic spam or whiners, who seems to not even understand the topic they`re whining about and afterwards it is very difficult to get back to a respectful and constructive discussion. The team captains do represent their team, so they really know what`s going on there. In this sub-forum they could summarize the feedback they get from their team members and act as a speaking trumpet (notice: There are intelligent team members who talk a lot about Hwbot in their own team forums, but are not able to express their thoughts in English - just an example). Plus you could create votings there and the team captains would act like electors of their individual communities/teams: This way you could even ensure that smaller teams attract attention. This does not(!) mean team captains should tell Hwbot staff what to do, but it might solve the problem about less popular votings (team captains have to be interested in all hwbot-related, otherwise they don´t deserve their status) and back-up the staff decissions, especially when it comes to fine tuning issues. Sub-forum can be public (but read-only for non-captains obviously) if the remaining team members want it to be public IMHO.

 

100% agreed on this 2 Points!

 

A forum for Team-Captains only would make such things much easier - especially for the staff.

Edited September 19, 2010 by der8auer

[George_o/c]

I thoroughly read the powerpoint presentation and the thread and to me the answer is simple... I'm all in for changes except for the "only best submission counts" rule. And I think we should cast a vote at least for that one, regardless of the number of people voting.

[Bustah]

I thoroughly read the powerpoint presentation and the thread and to me the answer is simple... I'm all in for changes except for the "only best submission counts" rule. And I think we should cast a vote at least for that one, regardless of the number of people voting.

 

I agree this is the sticking point for me, it wont help the oc community if this is implemented, regardless of who does or does not benefit from it.

[K404]

Massssssmaaannnnnnnnn

 

Have you come up with an idea for the progression of HWBot, not discussed it with the staff and are now ignoring the vast majority objection coming from the people who use the site? You want to just implement it anyway?

 

There is also a small babble of voices suggesting this is coming from company involvement and you've been bought

 

 

 

 

Please tell us none of these things are true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a thought earlier that this is a massive joke.... you with your wacky sense of humour

[tiborrr]

I believe new revision will benefit everyone. The 'only best score counts for team total' rule is harsh but perhaps neccassery. Our team's ranking will for sure suffer at first, but after few months we will get back into the new routine. It's just a matter of facing the changes and accepting them. The same as it was with rev3.0.

[der8auer]

Yea lol i've just accepted rev3 and members of our team hunt ebay for 8800s to gather points and now that hard work and money is lost with rev4.

[Hollywood]

Yea lol i've just accepted rev3 and members of our team hunt ebay for 8800s to gather points and now that hard work and money is lost with rev4.

 

Hey Mate,

all that hard work and money isn't lost with Rev.4!

The scores made with any hardware still counts for personal ranking (hwboint limit will be higher as it is right now).

So i don't wan't to call that useless.

Thing is, only the best submission with a piece of hardware counts for the teams total.

I see it that way: The teams get enforced to work as a team, to get the best possible result with each piece of hardware.

Every member within the team could take part in that.

So the team ranking would be more fair.

Not only the big teams with lots of members will have a chance to get a top spot.

[Leeghoofd]

That was not the right way.

Because the little Bencher who not Bench with SS or LN2 become 0 Points for the Team and than they have no fun to Bench.

 

If the CPU is not under cold, how many points would that submission now contibute to the team total This ain't gonna be earthshattering will it ?

 

Is the only way to contribute to the team, expressed in points ? Where's friendship, sharing experiences and co... Everybody here seems to bench for only for the team points, not for the fun of it...

 

I can't nor will afford to put my expensive GPU's under cold. Too bad for my team maybe, but that's how it is... My contributions have always been in hardware points, nothing more nothing less... Think your view over this new Rev is a bit too narrow minded...

Edited September 19, 2010 by Leeghoofd

[Guest TheMadDutchDude]

I've read through a lot of the posts on here.

 

This sucks. If I submit something for my team on dry ice and someone uses LN2 in the same catagory, my points won't be contributed towards my team as he is able to go higher and score better? So effectively, I've wasted both my time and my money as I won't be contributing towards my team any more.

 

Well if that is the case... why would anyone without LN2 or an amazingly good chip even bother?

[Leeghoofd]

For the hardware points ? Individual User rankings ? heck for the fun of it....

[tiborrr]

For the hardware points ? Individual User rankings ? heck for the fun of it....

Ditto!

[Viss]

Where does this quest for levelling the field end? First it was money (multiple GPU setups less attractive). Now its the size of the teams that come into play. Whats next? Put a max on the time each member can spend to produce results?

[der8auer]

Hey Mate,

all that hard work and money isn't lost with Rev.4!

The scores made with any hardware still counts for personal ranking (hwboint limit will be higher as it is right now).

So i don't wan't to call that useless.

Thing is, only the best submission with a piece of hardware counts for the teams total.

I see it that way: The teams get enforced to work as a team, to get the best possible result with each piece of hardware.

Every member within the team could take part in that.

So the team ranking would be more fair.

Not only the big teams with lots of members will have a chance to get a top spot.

 

Not all but a lot!

 

Let only the best submission count prevents 10% of hardware-sharing. Come on... We all dislike hwsharing but for this price? No!

 

Atm every member can take part of the team. Just by uploading new scores! The rev4. will kick the Teams with the "pros" on top because they got al the #1 scores.

 

Team Pure has 27 Members and they are ranked 4th! So there is also atm a way to be on top without having 500 Members.

 

Just no need to change that!

 

For the hardware points ? Individual User rankings ? heck for the fun of it....

 

For me its fun to see my team go higher and higher. I don't just bench for myself. Its for the team!

[DopeLex]

Not all but a lot!

 

Let only the best submission count prevents 10% of hardware-sharing. Come on... We all dislike hwsharing but for this price? No!

 

Atm every member can take part of the team. Just by uploading new scores! The rev4. will kick the Teams with the "pros" on top because they got al the #1 scores.

 

Team Pure has 27 Members and they are ranked 4th! So there is also atm a way to be on top without having 500 Members.

 

Just no need to change that!

 

 

 

For me its fun to see my team go higher and higher. I don't just bench for myself. Its for the team!

 

Sign!

 

I can't understand why you want to punch the community, which made you/us to that what you/we are now, right in the face....

[Gigelz]

then could the whole''small''bencher throw the towel immediately. for which there would be no point to continue benching if their work is not counted for the team evaluation. the lives of the little bot. that must not be forgotten. not a good idea in my eyes.

[diezel]

where does it end's

[Guest TheMadDutchDude]

where does it end's

 

When team benching is killed, Rev.4.

 

As der8auer said before. I bench for my team. I do it out of enjoyment, of course, but I mainly do it to see my team climb up the rankings. Sure, I'm not exactly the most point worthy chap on our team but it all helps. If I were to suddenly lose all of my points because someone else on my team has better results, that means that I've just blown my money. I'm only 17, getting kit to potentially kill is difficult. If it were all for nothing then I will be really peeved.

Edited September 19, 2010 by TheMadDutchDude

[FACE411]

The team points rule will not stop, slow down, or even affect hw sharing in the least. The reason is pretty easy to see:

 

Put yourself in the mindset of a player who is going down the hw sharing route.... is that person going to risk getting caught/banned/whatever for team contribution, or personal gain?

There is a ton of hardware getting killed continuously in the name of 0.1 more points and another spot up in the hardware rankings... I highly doubt your grinder variety bencher is going to be "risking it all" by ban/whatever over a HD5750 score ranking.

 

when it comes to team rankings, every point counts... I like that idea, because once you reach the point "limit" for yourself, at least SOMEONE benefits from your hard work. The limit has to almost be removed for many of us to benefit or continue to benefit from hwboints rankings on a personal level. I have almost 700 hwboints... many have way more. They should count somewhere, or grinder support dies, and you are left with a global hunt only, where cheating will actually increase because there is more at stake. food for your noggin, baby!

 

If this team points rule goes through as is, I will continue to bench and grind. I just will not be posting anything in here about it... In fact, I would lose interest in logging in at all. Your hearts are in the right place in terms of attempting to stop cheating, but your heads are up your asses.

Edited September 19, 2010 by FACE411

[chew*]

For the hardware points ? Individual User rankings ? heck for the fun of it....

 

This.

 

Bottom line HW sharing benefitting teams is at an end, and tbh this it where it effects teams the most. People can all deny the fact that it happens but it's real it happens. Doing it a a user level due to the HW points cap is useless except for HW master rankings.......so there is no need to attempt to block it at a user level. The HW point cap total of a user already "Blocks" this.

 

As far as why are you still benching HW with a hwpoint cap........well there's still this category called HWmasters league.........where your points still count, oh and this little tiny other reason why people bench "becasue they freaking enjoy it for fun", if your only benching for points then you joined this hobby for wrong reasons.

 

Take for instance one of our own member sharing a score in a high profile event which not only was dealt with swiftly by hwbot and FM but also internally in team with a reminder that any score sharing will result in an ejection from team.

 

I know XS for one does not do this other than according to rules ( and no we don't exploit and hit grey area ) and we are preety transparrent in the fact that all teams have private non existent sections, ours just by chance is available for specific HW bot staff to see we have nothing to hide.

 

For that matter I chat with massman on a regular basis and run anything by him that I think might be questionable such as a recent conversation where i have multiple gulftowns that have not been benched in 2d becasue i have a better chip that i use personaly for 2d......the concensus is still it would raise eyebrows so there will be no results coming from the chips from any members in 2d even though the chips suck..........

 

How many can say that?

Edited September 19, 2010 by chew*

[Dahaka]

This is my opinion guys:

 

an example:

 

ME: hey yagami, you can't bench hd 5870 because i did with mine, so bench a 5850... "

Yagami: mmm, i don't have one....and i can't bench 5770 because cesariuth did it.

ME: ooohh ok, buy another one, i don't know maybe a gtx 480...

Yagami: Ok, i got it, but i don't have the money to buy that one...

 

My example goes directed to the little teams that really works like a team, i'm tooooooooo faaaaaar aaaawaaay from Concepción and Santiago ( cities of my partners and friends members of the Unknown-Team ), sending 3 o 4 times any hardware is almost de half of the value of that piece, is ridiculous ...

 

We have members and friends from Argentina, Colombia and Venezuela...how the f*ck is possible that i share hardware with that guys....DUH!.

 

I'm watting for the response of other ocers from Sudamerica.

 

Regards from Chile and sorry for my bad english.

 

Thanks Neuromancer .

 

I will put on contact with the most people in LATAM as possible as i can to support with good ideas to the BOT, it's a little fraction that lives from this hobbie ( work for others lucky guys ).

 

We're to small to get access to a lot of hardware, no matter if is high end, mid end or low end so please Massman if you put us like an example, reconsider our opinion.

 

 

 

Bench is all about TEAM, i can't be the best one if i don't get support from friends and my team, please remember that and don't forget it!!

 

Self quote, can anyone respond that please?, this revision it's like " if you doesn't like, go home..."

[chew*]

Here's a thought.

 

Don't get the same freaking hardware and let members that have a good card or are good at something in particular go after a class.

 

Hey your benching 8800GTS 640, you handle that i will tackle 8800GT 512, and this guy can tackle the 7900GT, while this other guys handles 5850..........

 

I see it all cheaper in long run when same team members dont have to all bench the same damn vga or a crappy VGA when another member has a better one.

Edited September 19, 2010 by chew*

[dejo1]

I see the new rev. killing interest in submitting to hwbot. The teams that purchase lots of hardware now, will still purchase all the hardware and still dominate the 10 points spots available. And in that case, why should anyone submit a score that makes no points. I dont think I will hear anyone say " I didnt score any points but wanted to add to the database". I know it seems that this rev will enhance the bot, but in the end I see it running of 80% of those that currently submit. I think I wouldnt have a reason to submit any scores.

 

In the end it still will only benefit those that have found one of those lovely golden samples that just scream.

 

I am definitely losing interest in submitting.

 

To me the way to make the most happy is to split the Pro's and leave the rest in a large group to fight for the rest.