rickss69 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) You can only play if you pay? I remember very well that in the first meeting about HWBOT, when Frederik said that he was not able to pay me more than legal minimum wage, I said to him: "I don't really care about how much I make - as long as the community will never have to pay for HWBOT I'm down with it". I still stand for that. I for one see nothing wrong with the concept...nothing in life is free unless you work for a government. Something for nothing is usually worth just that. Edited September 18, 2010 by rickss69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn@ke Oc Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 It's alright as it's going now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Well..... yes. At the moment, its entirely open. THe super-supported are at the top. Anyone with some proof of skill can approach a company and ask for at least *some* of the hardware to rise up the ranks. These are the normal guys currently paying for all/the vast majority of their gear If you put the same guys in a different league to the super-supported and tell companies not to look at the lower league, how can they progress? The fact that it is entirely open is already a huge problem, as far as my PM/mail tells me. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but a lot of other people really mind that people with corporate access are leading the rankings at the moment. If that's in fact not an issue, I think we wasted time splitting up. I reckon, however, that there are some big threads out there that have proven more than one overclocker is annoyed by it . FYI, regarding the XOL. I've explained to MFCs that there's no problem with sending out a free card once in a while to support overclockers or get feedback. However, if there are for instance 20 cards available, they should be send to 20 different people, not 1. XOL will still allow MFC to send out hardware, but it's not supposed to be the crazy pre-binned stuff. MFCs do notice interesting assets and, although some teams seem to think we don't, I've suggested several 'new' overclockers to be contacted for receiving some samples for feedback stuff. I'm also trying to push manufacturers towards the direction of more local events as well (since competition points equals more exposure for them), just to get local overclockers to meet more often. Like small overclocking sessions with some free gear (not always high-end, but also mainstream stuff - just to have fun), free LN2 and heaps of fun. Pushing towards doesn't equal immediate change, sadly enough ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobnova Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 One thing i would really like to see on the ambient/extreme cooling split. Rather then only the best score count and the other getting zero points, what about each person having an Extreme rating and an Ambient rating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 I like all of those ideas We all know that benching with free hardware is entirely different to benching with hardware we've bought. Its much easier to jack up the vTT on a free CPU, knowing that it doesn't *really* matter if it dies. Its easy to thrash hell out of the vGDDR on a free GPU- we didnt pay £400 for it...... I do believe the heavily supported guys should be split off. Can separate it into 2D and 3D as well if you can figure out how to apply the points. The problem is knowing whos getting what in terms of sponsorship/ support/etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Not precise. Polls hardly ever reach over 200 votes here on the HWBOT forums. That's not nearly a precise estimation of the entire HWBOT community. Needs more population then. Push it often at the Homepage of hwbot and i'm sure there will be more ppl participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kow_ciller Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 If this is indeed the future of hwbot, whats the point of teams then? Wouldn't everyone make their own person team with one person? It would just break the reason for having a TEAM. People wouldn't share secrets with their teammates anymore so they can stay at the top of the team ranking, etc. And this splitting individuals up into three leagues is kind of stupid. Split it into pro/ amateur and be done with it. Whats the point of splitting it into cooling as well? I know for one I was EXTREMELY satisfied when I would go out there and beat someone that was running dice or ln2 when I was on air. Maybe all the people running their 4.0ghz 24/7 clocks and benching should stop pissing and moaning that others are beating them and actually put time and effort into benching. I sure dont mind splitting the "pros" from everyone else, but splitting things three ways just adds to much confusion and makes things too easy for some people. Next thing its going to be splitting it into stock/ overclocked ambient leagues. Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrGaKC Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 As for the donating part. Thing is: there's still a huge hole to cover from the past 5 years of investment (when there was no income); if that continues, HWBOT will simply not continue ... it's not very smart to keep a costly website running if there's nothing that covers the costs. Also, if there's no software developper, no bugs will be solved (free time is needed and when you have a high pressure coding job + kids running around, time is limited). You can simply try advertising. Google AdSense might pay off if you manage to link it to eBay auctions people here might be interested in. May not pay much per click, but consider the fact that here you have 26k people, you MIGHT get some 2k clicks per month just from that. Not to mention getting companies to pay for banners on your site (hey, you said it, they want to get into OCing and pull some marketing there). Explain me how eg a team with only 5 members can ever achieve anything ( even though all bench on LN2 ? ) The teams with the most members, messing with the high end hardware are always on top... See my team, do we have the newest hardware or plenty of people in the team? Yet, we still manage to "tag along" with far larger teams. Don't talk about benching solely for the team... some are holier then the pope here lol. Being in a team is sharing ideas, if possible bench together, learn form eachother... Whatever you do, you'll always contribute to the team and people will appreciate your efforts. True, and all teams do that. But in order to have some ideas, you need to bench. And if you don't have any motivation to bench, where do you get your ideas? And if you're not playing for any team points but only for personal points, why would you want to help someone beat your score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richba5tard Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 You can simply try advertising. Google AdSense might pay off if you manage to link it to eBay auctions people here might be interested in. May not pay much per click, but consider the fact that here you have 26k people, you MIGHT get some 2k clicks per month just from that. Not to mention getting companies to pay for banners on your site (hey, you said it, they want to get into OCing and pull some marketing there). We tried that. Banners (and especially adsense) don't cover even a tiny fraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKarmakazi Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Duke;71263']So i get kicked in the teeth because i can afford to buy the newest hardware and Joe down the street can't. Thats pretty much whats happening in my eyes. Nothing like getting boned because you can and someone else can't. It's like kiddi baseball. No one wins and no one looses. whats the sense of playing. I agree not contributing to team points is a huge mistake. It will lower motivation across the board for smaller OC'ers to paricipate. The world is bigger than EU and USA. South-America has a very strong overclocking community' date=' but hardware is extremely expensive ... I really don't understand why you should be having a higher rank just because you are able to buy high-end stuff. Regardless of the amount of money it costs to compete, with skill and effort you can always play. GTX480 or HD4670 ...[/quote'] Yeah and right now less expensive hardware is still getting tons of points as it is, based on its popularity. Ppl who cant afford brand new gpu, can buy a 3870 or 8800gtx and get as many points as the new hardware. This argument does not hold water to me. You already stated hwpoint limit increased, so the people who cant afford new stuff are already being given a bonus. Unfair because not everyone have equal chances of qualifying, only guys from countries with big enough sales (so that local gigabyte office, if it exists, can have profit in making the qualifiers) Yeah or companies inviting status quo every year and not holding a qualifier to let new faces into the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoD_tattoo Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 1 Refrain from derogatory personal comments. 2 Hardware sharing is not nearly as big a problem as some would like you to believe. The life expectancy of most of these components under extreme voltage and cold is hours at best. Most of the extreme guys will tell you they have killed multiple chips/cards. Everybody wants you to buy more product at retail, not at a wholesale rate from your friends and teammates. 3 Separating manufacturer/pro/novice makes perfect sense. Separating the best submission from the rest of the team's work is ludicrous. 4 Competition points? Only from sanctioned comps by manufacturers who support hwbot, right? 5 The more you try to "level" the playing field under the guise of "fairness", the more we see its only about increasing the suffering population and income of this site. This is supposed to be about improving the quality of overclocks, no? All of these changes will ultimately work against your goals of improving hwbot. Once you have alienated the best and hardest working overclockers and their teams, you will have no one left to regulate. History has shown socialism does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONAKONA Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 What do you guys not like about hardware sharing anyway? Only reasons I can see against it are a) some whiny guy doesn't get to borrow it and complains or b) hwbot wants you to buy more hardware instead of making efficient use of a team's resources. Then again this update minus well remove teams altogether, or make the max team size 5 members. Goes along with what's already being done quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenchZowner Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 What do you guys not like about hardware sharing anyway? Only reasons I can see against it are a) some whiny guy doesn't get to borrow it and complains or b) hwbot wants you to buy more hardware instead of making efficient use of a team's resources. Then again this update minus well remove teams altogether, or make the max team size 5 members. Goes along with what's already being done quite well. With the current ranking system ( rev3 ) hardware sharing can easily be a competition killer. How ? Let's say that I have a golden 980X capable of benching all the 3D Marks & AquaMark @ 6.6GHz - 6.8GHz, and the 2D's @ 6.9GHz. Since I'm daydreaming allow me to say that I also happen to have a 1450MHz GPU / 1350MHz MEM GTX 480 graphics card. Put those 2 together and you have top3 places on any benchmark if you know how to overclock those & basically tweak the benchmarks. I do so. And then pass both my CPU & VGA ( or the whole setup since you have nothing against hardware sharing ) to 10 teammates of mine... There you go, me & my 9 buddies in the top 10, and a huge advantage for my team. Hardware sharing is kinda killed when it comes to team rankings with rev4, but the main issue with hardware sharing, the individual overclocker rankings remain untouched, people will continue to share their HW to get their personal account a higher rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Seriously Massman - the great community is what gives hwbot such a success. Without 26.000 members there wouldn't be any support of MSI and so on. So such big changes should not be taken only by the staff. For sure you guys launched hwbot and provided us a space for international overclocking competition - and we're all thankfull for that!!! So there has to be something like a poll to give the community the chance to dicide how they like HWBot. HWBot is nothing without the community and there wouldn't be a community without HWBot So that's a decision which should be taken together. Otherwise it kinda feels like a dictatorship - and that's definitely not the way i learned to like hwbot. edit: Hardware sharing is kinda killed when it comes to team rankings with rev4, but the main issue with hardware sharing, the individual overclocker rankings remain untouched, people will continue to share their HW to get their personal account a higher rank. That's exactly the point! You can just eliminate a small part of Hardware-sharing with that. So that's not the right way! Edited September 18, 2010 by der8auer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakezoit Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 I sign that Roman that is what i also think , i`m here sincs Nov. 2006 but what is now planned to do has nothing to do with that what HWbot stands for. It`s like if you have an Sponsor and Money you are one , but if you don`t than you are only an idiot that is not there. Oky it`s good to improve Hwbot that is good but the way how is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCPerformance Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 With Rev.4 a lot of teams don't have fun to bench. Its a bad idea. I agree with the der8auer meaning A good Idea is a poll about this. Yes ------ No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Otherwise it kinda feels like a dictatorship It IS a dictatorship, all sites are. The site owner has final say over everything that goes on his/her site. No owner in their right mind would let the population tell him/her how to run or what goes on his/her site. However, a conscientious owner would take the populations opinion into account before he/she made radical decisions that may affect the wellbeing of the population and of one's own site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCPerformance Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 With the new Rev. the little overclocker und little teams are asskicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnip Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 It's very simple sharing vga's in a team is pointless now. Teams with money to afford to buy countless vga's = pointless for team now. It levels the playing field for those teams not so fortunate hardware wise to have 20 vidcards in the same category if it's really indeed 20 diff cards or the need to have a large amount of benchers and constantly be recruiting....., encourages teams to bench as whoa hold on for this one "AS A TEAM" as in together at the same location. It's quite obvious as the way things are currently that a team with maybe 10-15 active benchers has no chance against teams with 50 active benchers. Geez this team has top ranks, this one doesn't which team shall i join? It's quite obvious not many will go to a losing team. OLD saying Gangs are powerfull in numbers, take the numbers away and your left with a couple of punks with no spines. @ k404 it doesn't seem to effect user points so users can still bench........and with the ambient above 0c category well you don't even see how its implemented yet...... If you really think hardware sharing is not going on, well you need to open your eyes One sign will be team's upset over this, however now that I just explained that no one will be quite so quick to condemn at least that part of the revision for fear of looking guilty. ROFL!!!! You sir crack me up! All I gots to say is ride on little broom stick cowboy ride on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matti OC Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 we are the community without us there is no Hwbot lg Matti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCPerformance Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 that's right i agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DopeLex Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 With Rev.4 a lot of teams don't have fun to bench. Its a bad idea. I agree with the der8auer meaning A good Idea is a poll about this. Yes ------ No Sign! Worst idea you could have to contrived in a pub with a lot of cocktails at happy hour. Rev2 was great - Rev3 is great too. Rev4=killing the fun to bench for hwbot, especially for all the small teams out there. New people having fun to bench you will scare away too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCPerformance Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 the new bot helps only persons are sponsored by companies and manufacturer to present the power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakezoit Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 What would happen if all normal members wich are over 90% of all members @ Hwbot delete there Acc if Rev.4 starts and they know that they are unecessary?? If hwbot do an update than do it with the community not against it. Maybe i`ll be wrong. But that is what i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCPerformance Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 10% special user no, it is less than 3-5%. 10% are to high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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