Massman Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 In any other sports records always require validation by spectators or a specialized firm. Usain Bolt can run 9.1s 100M in his backyard, but it would not count (in fact no one even tries to claim this). Even speed records of the fastest cars or bikes are always video documented. Why is this not so for overclocking? I can't remember there's been a major community push for this ever? Why? :celebration: :celebration: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraRaptor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 too many complications. Also, a bench session of >5 hours is a very boring thing for spectators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ....because there aren't many live events in the grand scheme of things? This is predominantly an internet-based hobby..... Also, let's be honest.... it's easier to concentrate alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 7, 2015 Crew Share Posted July 7, 2015 It can be very boring to watch when someone tries to beat a score and crashing 150 times... If you could prepare and it will all work out in one or two runs it would be okay, but I haven't done many of them latter sessions to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Island Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) It does sound like an interesting point, but I am not even sure I would care to even watch and I love overclocking. I think for us the screenshot and still pictures of the equipment and comments at the bottom are our form of recording the event. I love when we get to see pictures of the different setups and mods and it's fun to look thru the screenshot, but a video of the computer screens video isn't that interesting. Which is a shame because maybe that's what would keep this hobby from being a major esport. At least with something like video games there is something on the screen that is interesting to some people and it's a little easier to televise. Imagine if it was just a video of the person using the controller. I could only see it working if you were able to edit the video and then release it after. So it's still taped live but you can cut out the boring parts and speed different parts up and maybe you could edit something that was interesting. otherwise what happens during the 10 minutes you are trying to get your mobo to boot and push the reset button 100 times and your sitting there kinda doing nothing. Also I think a big reason some of the other sports are interesting to watch is the commentary and play by play analysis. You would want something like that. instead of goooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaalllllllllll or "It is far, it is high, it is gone. We would have to think of a catch phrase for the exact world record moment. It is cold, it is frozen and now it's number 1. I'm not that clever to think of something good but we should come up with something. Edited July 7, 2015 by Strong Island Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaJ0r Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 In any other sports records always require validation by spectators or a specialized firm. Usain Bolt can run 9.1s 100M in his backyard, but it would not count (in fact no one even tries to claim this). Even speed records of the fastest cars or bikes are always video documented. Why is this not so for overclocking? I can't remember there's been a major community push for this ever? Why? :celebration: :celebration: Why it should be documented? Who will be interested in that video except small group of people ) It would be a great idea but it can make achieving any record more complicated than it is now. Maybe it's an appropriate for manufacturers more that for individual overclockers. And btw I thought hwbot database, screenshots, validation files they all are kind of documents for community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Why it should be documented? Who will be interested in that video except small group of people ) Verifiability is an important aspect of legitimizing a fact. That applies universally, in sports but also in science and research. Someone mentioned that he found it weird that the overclocking community accepts "records" behind closed doors with no 3rd party presence to verify the score was actually set. I thought about it for a while, and he made a good point. It would be interesting to make a list of the "World Records" made during contests (online) and then another list of "World Records" in a live environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 This is something that I feel very strongly about as you know Pieter. Live benching is the next logical step. But what format that live event takes is as important. The current view that watching benching live is boring is true. 10 hours of seeing some bloke pour a clear liquid into a container on a bit of electronics gets stale very quickly. The argument that it is boring is only true when seen through the lens of current benching, where you have unlimited time and no pressure of competition. A high jumper in practice can fail 1000 times with no penalty and finally pass the WR mark. It will not count even though that WR mark has been beaten, why because it was not done in competition. I would like to see the same for Benching. Benching currently is like that high jumper, you can fail as many times as you like with no pressure besides cost of hardware and Ln2. Live viewing in the current format is not going to work, have two hours for a benching match and see the viability ratchet up. People competing against one another is what gets the juices flowing when watching sport. Competition has its place in benching, as does the data base method we current use. They are complementary. But live benching will only be fun to watch if there is a definite start and finish time and most importantly it is a contest between two or more people. Then just maybe it is not boring. You the viewer will see the highs and lows during an event. Hardware fails due to pushing to hard will become part of the game management that a bencher needs to master. Risk versus reward. The drama of competing is the key to viewer engagement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Just for kicks I made a small table with the best results achieved in HWBOT contests and then live events. Contest (online and offline) Live Contest/Event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 8, 2015 Crew Share Posted July 8, 2015 True words , I think the event in Poitiers showed that a nerv braking time limit enhances the pressure big time , but also the spectacle. Like I said before watching a guy doing re-run after re-run, crash after crash is hard to comment on and is hardly entertaining if this happens during hours I liked the dreamhack thing where benchers would bench a particular setup and then swap seats to take control of the other setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taloken Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 WR that are maybe interesting in live are "brailess rawpower" like 4-way + x960X. SuperPi & Co are not very eye-appealing, and require much more concentration from the clocker, difficult to have in the middle of dozens of people watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkDogg Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 So's setting the long jump record in front of 100,000 people at the Olympics. What's your point?? You don't see athletes or other sportman blaming that they couldn't concentrate because of the people watching. WR's should only be recordable at HWBOT events. At the end of the day they are what you would call the governing body, where everything is stored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 JunkDogg I like what you are saying mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkDogg Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Surely it couldn't be that hard. If you want to go for a WR, inform HWBOT that you are going to do so. Let them know when, where and who will be there to verify. If possible, they could have someone from HWBOT there(I mean if possible) also to verify. As long as you have say a minimum of 3-5 registered HWBOT users present and HWBOT were happy with the said users present. Then it's all go. I know for us in here, I've just near on made it impossible. Yet, if we tried hard enough and actually got together more it could be done. bunnyextraction, I'm more than willing to jump on a plane for a weekend and go benching. It's not people are going for WR's everyday in other sports, so why should ours change every 5 minutes or less. Plus it will eliminate sand bagging, which will make it even more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraRaptor Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Actually another thing making good hobby not compatible with hwbot. You know what are the money involved into sports? Let the top-10 hwbot users get the same salaries as MU players and you will get tons of videos of WRs. Why should I care about video if it is not being paid? Why should I put my jeans on during benching making myself less comfortable?) Gamers do have channels full of video but WCG has a prize pool of over $1M. And look, I don't remember a single OC event that is close to $50k prize pool. If you want us to make our hobby not that comfortable and easy (say, make it rather a business) get sponsors for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you ever modded 4+ 1000***8364; cards and took them to a different country to break records live you would not like to do this. Taking SuperPi down with one container or maybe even on memory is a complete different story than doing real 4-way records. The money and time involved is just too much to do everything live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you ever modded 4+ 1000***8364; cards and took them to a different country to break records live you would not like to do this. Taking SuperPi down with one container or maybe even on memory is a complete different story than doing real 4-way records. The money and time involved is just too much to do everything live. Roman and Ian were hard at work for three days non stop at the Cambridge event TeamGB hosted. The guys fought with me to be allowed to stay in the venue late in the evenings so that they could get their set up sorted and ready for the next day. So I do fully agree with what der8auer is saying here. It is not easy to manage 4 way multi cards especially as Roman says if they are extensively modded. Your response does beg the the question, to me, would it be as problematic if we were only using retail video cards that did not need to be modded to the extreme... Sure 4 way on Ln2 is never simple. Took us four days to get it right two years ago to with the R290X cards I seem to recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 While the idea is valid, in reality it's just not feasible like Roman said. Sometimes it takes days to get these multi card rigs running right, very seldom do they behave like you want on the first boot. It's a little more realistic at big events or HQ type gatherings as there are usually support people on hand willing to lend a hand. For the other 99.9% of the time, it would be an unnecessary burden to manage. I usually bench alone in my house, granted I'm not setting many WR's, but it's hard enough to produce top scores, get the screen shots just right, ensure the validation files and links are good and the rig not crashing without having to worry about a stupid video camera as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildzoid Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If you ever modded 4+ 1000***8364; cards and took them to a different country to break records live you would not like to do this. Taking SuperPi down with one container or maybe even on memory is a complete different story than doing real 4-way records. The money and time involved is just too much to do everything live. Could you not just run a live stream for the length of the attempt and ask some people to watch? over the stream. That way no one has to fly anywhere. On a side note I've been thinking about how to make overclocking live streams less boring and I think the problem is that the people watching just have no idea what is going on most of the time even if they are into overclocking. So maybe commenting over what you're doing during the stream or perhaps someone very experienced in overclocking could do commentary over the live event. And I mean proper commentary where they try to hype the audience and analyze and explain the various things the benchers are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVizMan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 So maybe commenting over what you're doing during the stream or perhaps someone very experienced in overclocking could do commentary over the live event. And I mean proper commentary where they try to hype the audience and analyze and explain the various things the benchers are doing. You are correct. Most sports are rubbish to watch without the comentary. The other gripe I have with live streams is that they try to have every cam showing on one screen. So you get like five small windows and then the viewers can not see anything. The Cambridge event was live streamed and we had different commentators, myself and Ian (borandi) from AnandTech among others, and certainly when I did the semi-finals there was heaps of explaining and geeing up the viewers. We had over 900 people watching that two hour semi-final. It was entertainment both for the spectators at the event and there were plenty and the viewers on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWeez Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 On a side note I've been thinking about how to make overclocking live streams less boring this is not just a live stream issue.. we have the same problem with live demo's or show's most of the time its just to simple or to complex to engage with a crowd of people for 5 min let alone to try keep their attention for 45 min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 8, 2015 Crew Share Posted July 8, 2015 Well DrWEEEZZZZZZZ depending on what is going on it can be quite fun to commentary. Like HiVizman said if there's plenty of action going on it can be very entertaining to watch. If however if its like at the gathering at Computex, not much was going on. Thus to keep the crowd than happy is another ballpark. We need small time frames with plenty of warranted action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phobosq Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 So basically what you want is to make OC like chess or bridge - there are live streams of chess/bridge tournaments, but without commentary it's not that entertaining, even to enthusiasts. I think I understand your points - Massman asks "can we make it more popular", JunkDogg makes comparison to athletics and der8auer replies from his experience of doing 4-way LN2. But maybe that's the point - if the community started breaking the records live, then it would move OC closer to sport and gain additional attention? I remember there's was a bunch of guys in Georgia a year or so ago, that took Cedar Mill celly to university and did 8G+ on LN2. I think that's the spirit of live OC we're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techjesse Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It would take someone or a corp. with deep pockets and willing to farther advance this great sport by renting a ballroom and supplying ln2 for the invited Benchers (Classes, elite....ect...) open the door to the public and have live streaming. Invite locale TV news to the event to gain attention and have events in east, west USA, Europe and any where else in the world where Benchers would be willing to go. Also set up a fund for those willing to go and put on a LN2 Rocking Event TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Massman asks "can we make it more popular", JunkDogg makes comparison to athletics and der8auer replies from his experience of doing 4-way LN2. But maybe that's the point - if the community started breaking the records live, then it would move OC closer to sport and gain additional attention? My point is not to make OC more exciting, but more from a general point of view why the community (or even press) accepts records done behind closed doors without any external peer validation that the score was in fact achieved at that moment. Competitive overclocking and exciting livestreams is another can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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