3Dmark 2008 'Vantage' - to add or not to add

[darkzone]

I know what is the parity, I'd should say that an $150 price in US became an €150 in Europe, in Romania at least, and that before taxes. Call this as you wish, this is the reality here.

 

Back on topic: when 3DMark06 was released, the hardware at that time was capable to run the benchmark, in one way or another, on almost all operating systems, not only Windows XP, just because it was the newest OS in the world. Why did Futuremark this mistake to not offer support for XP? Because this OS doesn't support DX10? No problem, will run the tests in DX9, even with some score penalties, I can accept that, but just run.

[aGeoM]

Voted not to add.

 

Adding it all flavors with no points, makes no sense to me.

Adding Basic if was free for home users with points, as before it's OK, but since they changed charging policy there is nothing to consider.

Developing the benchmark has costs, I know that, but they also have revenues, from advertising and from Professional users how take marketing advantages from the scores, like Graphics manufactures advertising xyz score in 3DmarkXX in retail packages.

I use benchmarking products to see how my OCed system scales as a hooby, not as a professional.

 

It is not the $7 or whatever cost but the principle.

 

Maybe that way they reconsider on the charging policy.

 

Just my 2cents (they are free LOL )

[aGeoM]

BTW something is wrong about poll results

 

Should it be # of row voters divide by the sum of total voters multiplied by 100?

 

134.14%

[richba5tard]

You can chose multiple options, hence total can be > 100%.

[bornbad]

Oh men it`s multiple choice poll!

[aGeoM]

You can chose multiple options, hence total can be > 100%.

 

LOL didn't realized, I thought it was just one strait answer.

 

My bad

[Nazar]

Common guys, add with points. Or tell me why I have bought 3 8800ultras and 2 9800gx2. Seems this bench can use the power of these.

[TheKarmakazi]

Common guys, add with points. Or tell me why I have bought 3 8800ultras and 2 9800gx2. Seems this bench can use the power of these.

 

+1

[K404]

LOL do you need this bench to make you feel better about your GPU purchases?

 

Would you not bench it if there were no points? Stop benching for glory- bench because you like to bench.

 

I hope you will bench 3DMVantage no matter what HWB says. There is still the ORB, there is still going to be a form of leaderboard, so if you do well you will get some recognition.

 

If HWB want to take the load off their servers, remove all points. That will separate the people who enjoy benching from the shallow people who need points to feel good at what they do. IMHO, those people bench for the wrong reasons.

 

Seriously- if there were no HWB points, would you not bother?

[Bustah]

3DM Vantage is a pile of stinky stuff and has no place on my system. I refuse to line peoples pockets for the 'priviledge' of running their piece of hastily thrown together nonsense which shows precisely nothing useful whatsoever.

 

All my current games run fine and smoothly. This benchmark runs like a dog and looks worse than the games I play....so why would I want to pay money to run it again??

 

Once was more than enough

 

I like your sublety.

[Joeteck]

No worries really... 3Dmark 2006 will last a long long time.... Need some really great hardware to get in the 17K range...

[BenchZowner]

Add all 3...no reason not to. $20 for the advanced is not a big deal. The presets are there to shift the bottleneck from CPU to GPU which is a nice touch. Different rigs will do better on different presets, so it makes sense to award points to all 3. It is like running 3 different benchmarks.

 

The "not forcing people to buy" argument makes absolutely no sense, hwbot does nothing but force people to buy hardware as it is. Scores always take money; that's just a part of life.

 

100% agreed.

 

First of all, Quad SLI & Quad CF will "show" their power ( and not go wasted ) on "High".

Triple SLI, CrossFire-X 3GPU also shine on "High" but also share some improvements on "Performance", and single cards like Entry the most, also entry is the most tweakable preset.

 

Add all 3 ( Entry, Performance, High ) and award points for all 3.

 

P.S. People complaining about Vista... 1) Quad-SLI, and Quad CF work only in Vista, 2) Quad-SLI/Quad-CF 3D Mark03 runs are done in Vista, 3) wPrime runs faster in Vista/2008, 4) You're not forced to run this benchmark, and you're not forced to run Vista as well.

 

The "If I can't get it, why let him get it" attitude sucks, grow up and learn better ways.

Some people would rather see others fall, than gain a thing. That's pathetic & really sad.

[cdawall]

i honestly think its nice for people who are on vista and running all of that but its pointless to anyone who cant/wont upgrade to vista as its a POS OS thus my vote is add it but no points

 

 

also 1280x1024 is bloody useless on any high end gpu unless you have a 5ghz intel quad that alienates way more than half of users its bull to loose in a graphics race if you have a higher clocked gpu and better rig in games and other 3d apps just cause your 3ghz DC cant compete with an LN2 potted QX9650

[Finguz]

No worries really... 3Dmark 2006 will last a long long time.... Need some really great hardware to get in the 17K range...

 

This underlines the basis to my entire argument perfectly...

 

The highest scores are only available to those with the deepest pockets; what exactly is the point??

 

"OMG look at the results, those guys have more money than me and as a result they have more to spend on exotic hardware and it makes their score higher"...

 

We already know the best hardware is the fastest

 

Sigh!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love tweaking my system and getting the most out of it but current benchmarks have nothing to do with tweaking ( real tweaking ) and everything to do with who can afford the best kit and then who can afford to try and destroy said kit to achieve the insane overclocks neccessary to even come close to the top scores.

[darkzone]

Common guys, add with points. Or tell me why I have bought 3 8800ultras and 2 9800gx2. Seems this bench can use the power of these.

I have some questions for you:

1. How many people in this world have quad-SLI, quad CrossFireX, quad-core CPU and so many quad-something? 100? 1000? Do you know? I don't, but aren't too much. Yet.

2. And since when is Vista a must have for an ordinary 3D bench tool? Says who?

3. The others who runs just fine XP on the-state-of-the-art pieces of hardware are discriminated from the ones who runs "briliant" Vista on the-state-of-the-art pieces of hardware, this looks fair for you?

 

Disclaimer: I'm not XP user anymore, from a long time ago, I'm using Server 2003 on my home machine. But I'm performing my personal tests on rigs using still good old XP SP2. Until now, when some "good guys" from Futuremark decided in other way and force, yes force, me and other people to move on Vista. This looks like a backstage joint between Microsoft and Futuremark for me.

 

Yes, I agree that the expensive hardware is better and faster than ordinary hardware, but why we, the others, do not have the possibility to run this bench on our mid-range hardware, either? And on XP?

[lunatic@98]

This looks like a backstage joint between Microsoft and Futuremark for me.

 

dito

[a1k]

voted no, don't add 3Dmark vantage... or without points... like pcmark vantage... humm....

[tiborrr]

Do not add it, or - if you must - add without points.

[BenchZowner]

Why should HWbot NOT include 3D Mark Vantage ?

Because most people will not use it ?

That's not the way to go, and definitely not logical.

 

You guys are also complaining about the points, how rich ppl will gain more points than you with Vantage, etc.

First of all, if you're doing it just for the points, then you should take a break, and think why are you doing this, and if there's a point in doing this.

You're looking at the ocean but you can't see the water.

 

p.s. If that's the case, let's remove PC Mark 05 because only rich people with iRAMs & SSDs can get to the top.

Let's also remove 3D Mark03 as well because it requires 3+ GPUs to get close to the top.

 

And let us also delete HWbot and kill Fred for his stupid idea :-p

 

You don't like 3D Mark Vantage ? Fine. Don't run it. Nobody's forcing you to do so.

But don't try to force the rest to follow your way, and don't ask ppl to include 3dmv but not gaining any points.

It's your decision not to run this bench. Others like and want to, and find dedication and excitement into benching this one as well.

Do you have the right to tell them not to, or that their efforts aren't worth any points ?

[darkzone]

Why should HWbot NOT include 3D Mark Vantage ?

Because most people will not use it ?

Most people will not be able to use it, due to Vista, first of all. In second place - price for complete version. And three - honestly, it looks bad, very bad, this first release at least.

 

You don't like 3D Mark Vantage ? Fine. Don't run it. Nobody's forcing you to do so.

No, nobody forcing me to run Vantage, but I have also the right to run it, or not? And I don't have the alternative, either. In other words, Futuremark "suggest", directly more or less, to move on Vista in order to run their newest bench crap tool. Moving on Vista -> massive Vantage license sales -> this will bring some nice cash in their pockets. And for Microsoft, too.

 

It's your decision not to run this bench. Others like and want to, and find dedication and excitement into benching this one as well.

Yeah ... well ... it's easy to speak for one like you who have access at both pieces, hardware and software (don't tell me you had purchased Professional version of Vantage with your personal money for this review, because I don't believe that you spend $500 just for fun). Btw, nice one, you deserve some congratulations.

[BenchZowner]

Most people will not be able to use it, due to Vista, first of all.

 

1) There's a Windows Vista trial available for download.

2) There's also something called 2nd HDD for temporary installation

3) For the very poor ppl with 1 HDD, there's also something called Imaging Software or Partitioning software.

 

In second place - price for complete version.

 

To participate in every preset category ( assuming that HWbot will support any preset apart from Performance, which is available to everyone ) you need the Advanced version, which is a measly 20$.

 

And three - honestly, it looks bad, very bad, this first release at least.

 

3D Mark2001SE with LoD looks terrible, should we NOT bench 3D Mark2001SE as well ?

Oh, 3D Mark03 also looks terrible compared to 3D Mark05, should we NOT bench 3D Mark05 as well ?

 

Hope you got my point here.

 

No, nobody forcing me to run Vantage, but I have also the right to run it, or not?

http://www.microsoft.com -> Download trial version.

Option 2... buy the DSP version which isn't that expensive.

Option 3... beware of the one-eyed man

 

In other words, Futuremark "suggest", directly more or less, to move on Vista in order to run their newest bench crap tool.

 

1) Once again, FutureMark didn't FORCED you to run their bench crap tool.

But why do you keep talking about it despite the fact that you say it's crappy.

 

2) People were saying "We have DirectX 10 cards, but no DX10 benchmarks".

Well, here you go.

Now don't tell me that you didn't knew that you need a operating system with the DirectX 10 API to run a DirectX 10 application.

 

Moving on Vista -> massive Vantage license sales -> this will bring some nice cash in their pockets. And for Microsoft, too.

 

1) Moving to Vista doesn't force you or require you to run or buy 3D Mark Vantage. Is it ?

2) You're losing the water again. Why should we care if Microsoft or FutureMark make money out of this ?

 

Yeah ... well ... it's easy to speak for one like you who have access at both pieces, hardware and software (don't tell me you had purchased Professional version of Vantage with your personal money for this review, because I don't believe that you spend $500 just for fun). Btw, nice one, you deserve some congratulations.

 

Well well... no I didn't buy the professional license, it was given to me because of my hobby/job.

But that doesn't play any part at all in what I'm saying.

My opinion would be exactly the same without this license.

[darkzone]

Then, why didn't Futuremark made Vantage compatible with XP, like proceeded with 06? Because of exactly the same reason for what Microsoft didn't include DX10 API in XP. I'm absolutely sure that DX10 will run fine under XP, if desires that. Yes, yes ... you're close ... that's it ... Vista. Does Microsoft sell around Vista if DX10 is, ipothetically, available for XP? I guess not.

If you like it or not, Vista isn't that most popular how would wish or like Microsoft. Not in Europe, not in my country and not in other many countries in the world. So, that Vantage is a good way to promote Vista crap, and Vista to promote Vantage crap. One hand clean the other, and both clean the face. I'm saying just is not the right time to make this move, there is not too many top-hardware users, despite the fancy and shiny-coloured graphics exposed by Microsoft, Intel, nVidia and the rest of IT industry. I repeat, if you like it or not. Come back with your feet on the ground, the few enthusiasts who own "heavy artillery" and which you have seen on worldwide forums represents a very small percentage from PC users. Yes, I agree to move on to the future, but not so fast. And not so that agressively, that's scares most users in front of quick changing. People need some more time to work in parallel with XP and Vista, for an easy pass to the newer OS. That's all.

[harleybro]

I haven't run a game on any rig in the past 2 years I also haven't had a network connection on any bench rig in the past 2 years. I voted to add of coarse. Now that I see I won't be able to submit scores since I can't save them it's useless. I was planning on a second GX2 just to run along with purchase Vista (just to bench) but I will not be adding a network in to run a bench. I use a laptop with a 3g card which is fine for all my network needs except running a bench aparently. :-( It's funny I have always supported Fm and bought pro versions of all bench programs but for $500 to submit they lose all respect IMHO.

[Deanzo]

I haven't run a game on any rig in the past 2 years I also haven't had a network connection on any bench rig in the past 2 years. I voted to add of coarse. Now that I see I won't be able to submit scores since I can't save them it's useless. I was planning on a second GX2 just to run along with purchase Vista (just to bench) but I will not be adding a network in to run a bench. I use a laptop with a 3g card which is fine for all my network needs except running a bench aparently. :-( It's funny I have always supported Fm and bought pro versions of all bench programs but for $500 to submit they lose all respect IMHO.

 

Thats my issue right there.

 

I could care less about the $19 (or $7 if thats more your thing) but no score and you can't save your bench unless you pay $500

For guys that bench sub zero and don't run their rig with a network connection.

 

 

For that, they can keep it. I vote no points!

 

If I could have saved my results and uploaded them later, I would have been fine with it.

[darkzone]

Speakin' of evil http://futuremark.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80140

Anyway, this is not a reason for laugh, but is a reason for cry.