Mr.Scott Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Already turned out that way since people don't want to see anything happen with 3d.. and it's pretty funny that the people that are complaining about it don't do 3d. No matter why they dont.. I think it's bs. It's been proven they're complaining it's too expensive yet.. all ya need is a good 2d setup to run most of the 3d setups.. Yeah, and a thousand buck a pop vid card. You seem to keep leaving that out. sounds like they are a bit scared or lack of skill is why... Same could be said about 3D'ers not doing 2D. Pointless, going in circles. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 How do you get 1000 dollars a card? Any average 980ti will work.. 600.. plus you can even use a 980.. which you can get 300 to 400.. how is that expensive... come on and quit making excuses.. I do both and my profile shows it.... I enjoy 3d more.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Any average 980ti will work.. 600.. plus you can even use a 980.. which you can get 300 to 400.. how is that expensive... come on and quit making excuses.. I do both and my profile shows it.... I enjoy 3d more.. LOL. You're joking right? I see 0 subs for GPUPi in your profile, and I know you have good cards and a lot of them. You're giving away global and WR points that you could have. And I enjoy 2D more, but you don't see me begging for more points. Whatever. GL in your quest. Edited January 9, 2016 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 pretty good points in 3d hardware with older cards but there is no software voltage for them and the same 6.0+- latest intel chips they are using for 2d will do the trick. you guys are talking golbals then yeah that's cash since every year it will change to the latest vga's. we cant have infighting over this crap that's not good for anything. I so want a jiggling boob chick with a nice fat round as in the next 3d bench and a free one I hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkDogg Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 pretty good points in 3d hardware with older cards but there is no software voltage for them and the same 6.0+- latest intel chips they are using for 2d will do the trick.you guys are talking golbals then yeah that's cash since every year it will change to the latest vga's. we cant have infighting over this crap that's not good for anything. I so want a jiggling boob chick with a nice fat round as in the next 3d bench and a free one I hope No women are free mate, I'm afraid. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 LOL. You're joking right?I see 0 subs for GPUPi in your profile, and I know you have good cards and a lot of them. You're giving away global and WR points that you could have. And I enjoy 2D more, but you don't see me begging for more points. Whatever. GL in your quest. GPU PI is all amd.. nvidia doesn't score well.. its a pretty boring benchmark.. I have a some scores.. just never submit.. I only put up stuff if I think its worth it. I get top 10 scores all the time... I barely choose to submit anymore. 01/03/05/06/AM3 you can get top 10 with 980 and even dual.... not 1k card... Again... What do you not get about this? Im not saying discounting 2d... Im saying 3d points are very low for pretty much twice the work in some cases.. Just make them even at least.. And Im not begging for points.. I could care less about points... All I want is 3d to get respect for what it deserves. People should do it.. Also not sure you noticed.. but I have stopped submitting here as I think points are bs in general... I don't care about them.. but most people do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 No women are free mate, I'm afraid. LOL. hahaha.. junk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest george.kokovinis Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Dead end. Indy 500. The one that does not hit the wall is the winner. TBH, after all this, I have personally lost any interest in benching. Libido has gone underground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.paco Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I may be confused on something and if I am please clear it up for me. From some of what I read a few are complaining that XTU gives so many more points than 3D benchmarks. That is wrong; The points all start out the same and THEN grow based on the number of participants/submissions/popularity. If you you look at the number of XTU submissions it equals OVER 283,000. Not another benchmark in 2D or 3D even comes close to that number of submissions. Maybe 3D06 with just over 76,000. POPULARITY... The exact same thing can happen with/to ANY other benchmark here if suddenly folks decided to do 3D06 for example, then BOOM the top points will get bigger . Its a matter of who wants to bench what. If one person wants to take $400 and buy one video card to bench 3D thats his/her choice. Same if another person takes that same $400 and buys 40 cpus to bench 2D. Everyone has a choice of what they want to run. You can not ask/force a system to sway the point algorithm in your favor cause of less participants. Understand, I do not have anything against 3D benchmarks at all I actually like em more than 2D. I just cant 3D bench to save my life , so I choose to mostly run 2D. Again... A choice. :celebration: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug2507 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is anything happening with this? Lost interest about 10 pages ago... Unsubbed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Island Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) I may be confused on something and if I am please clear it up for me.From some of what I read a few are complaining that XTU gives so many more points than 3D benchmarks. That is wrong; The points all start out the same and THEN grow based on the number of participants/submissions/popularity. If you you look at the number of XTU submissions it equals OVER 283,000. Not another benchmark in 2D or 3D even comes close to that number of submissions. Maybe 3D06 with just over 76,000. POPULARITY... The exact same thing can happen with/to ANY other benchmark here if suddenly folks decided to do 3D06 for example, then BOOM the top points will get bigger . Its a matter of who wants to bench what. If one person wants to take $400 and buy one video card to bench 3D thats his/her choice. Same if another person takes that same $400 and buys 40 cpus to bench 2D. Everyone has a choice of what they want to run. You can not ask/force a system to sway the point algorithm in your favor cause of less participants. Understand, I do not have anything against 3D benchmarks at all I actually like em more than 2D. I just cant 3D bench to save my life , so I choose to mostly run 2D. Again... A choice. :celebration: we all understand the reason, we are having a discussion about trying to even it out a bit to make 3d a little more enticing, with the current system you sometimes are swayed a little more towards 2d because it seems to offer more points for less money, again I understand the reason why but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it. I came into hwbot only doing 3d at first, my first ln2 session I froze a gpu and had my cpu on water, but lately I have been benching more 2d because I can get more points for my money. it would be nice if we could figure out a way to make 3d more like that. So hopefully that helps clear it up a bit for you. It would be really nice if we could figure out a way to make cheaper gpus worth more points but it seems hard, or to be able to compete on just gpu score to take away the need of an expensive cpu to compete in gpu rankings. Edited January 9, 2016 by Strong Island Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest george.kokovinis Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 we all understand the reason, we are having a discussion about trying to even it out a bit to make 3d a little more enticing, with the current system you sometimes are swayed a little more towards 2d because it seems to offer more points for less money, again I understand the reason why but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it. I came into hwbot only doing 3d at first, my first ln2 session I froze a gpu and had my cpu on water, but lately I have been benching more 2d because I can get more points for my money. it would be nice if we could figure out a way to make 3d more like that. So hopefully that helps clear it up a bit for you. It would be really nice if we could figure out a way to make cheaper gpus worth more points but it seems hard, or to be able to compete on just gpu score to take away the need of an expensive cpu to compete in gpu rankings. With all due respect, Wishful thinking compared to pure mathematics are as far from each other as Earth from Mars. 1+1 will always be 2 and however you look at it will never become 3-1. There is no mathematical rule to overcome the raw power. How can the cheaper GPU's have more rewarding ? How can a system with an I7-6700K running at the same speed with a 5960X ever be able to compete in PhysicX. Either we talk here based on mathematical thinking and pure user skills or this whole discussion is done for reasons other than the obvious ( which I am strongly starting to believe ). If high end GPU producers do not like how their sales and adaptation from top over clockers worldwide go, then they should make their prices A LOT more competitive to draw interest. Kids playing games with their dad's money can go out and buy twice a year the latest and greatest GPU or more. Never understood why the most complicated and expensive and rewarding motherboard in the world costs half the money of a TitanX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed.fastest Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 As far as i know, overclocking is not about raw performance, but performance improvement over stock speed, except for World Record is different. Overclock Athlon 5350 to 4ghz maybe is harder than do 6700K to 6.5ghz. Thats why HWBot give Hardware Point (pure point for overclocking) and Global Point (for fastest overclocked system). So to make 3D popular you need to accommodate what people need, cheap oc. With cheap oc people will submit more and make your 3D point will naturally get higher point, even more than XTU if submission become more popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Island Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 With all due respect, Wishful thinking compared to pure mathematics are as far from each other as Earth from Mars. 1+1 will always be 2 and however you look at it will never become 3-1. There is no mathematical rule to overcome the raw power. How can the cheaper GPU's have more rewarding ? How can a system with an I7-6700K running at the same speed with a 5960X ever be able to compete in PhysicX. Either we talk here based on mathematical thinking and pure user skills or this whole discussion is done for reasons other than the obvious ( which I am strongly starting to believe ). If high end GPU producers do not like how their sales and adaptation from top over clockers worldwide go, then they should make their prices A LOT more competitive to draw interest. Kids playing games with their dad's money can go out and buy twice a year the latest and greatest GPU or more. Never understood why the most complicated and expensive and rewarding motherboard in the world costs half the money of a TitanX. im not just dreaming, someone mentioned grouping lower end gpus into categories which would give more hardware points and also I don't see why if we enabled global points for firestrike ultra why it couldn't be based on just gpu score which would even out 6700k's and 5960x's, I know the benchmark itself does this on it's own by being very gpu dependent but it's something worth talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) im not just dreaming, someone mentioned grouping lower end gpus into categories which would give more hardware points and also I don't see why if we enabled global points for firestrike ultra why it couldn't be based on just gpu score which would even out 6700k's and 5960x's, I know the benchmark itself does this on it's own by being very gpu dependent but it's something worth talking about. so if that is the case we can just run the gpu tests? one of the main reasons people stop running 3d dx11benches is because they cost money,most of the gamers I know loved catzilla till they made you pay for the higher res. tests. in the case if you did that with say 3d 11 or vantage a water 4/8 cpu at speed say 5.+ would outscore a 6/12 or 8/16 what 4.8-4.6 1k chip easy in gpu sections with same gpu clocks.with current resolutions now as for fm 3d legacy benches? come on new people to overclocking don't want to run xp jajajajaja so lets move on from those cpus tests hiding as 3d benches lower gpus are just that if no one runs them what can you do? bunching cards by pipes or cores is not the cure for what ails. I just ran my 4770k with xtu(yes I was very bored)it scored 1200 or so good for 21hw points easy.On the other hand my modded bios jimmy rigged water cooled gtx 970 runs 30,5+K cat 1080p 10hw its ok for 3d11 19k+ and 8 points but you know what I rather run all day? my 970 by far it all boils down to the hw points not being messed up,it is what people run so in turn thats where the points are you cant fix that. we need a modern (manufacturer biased or not) free 3d bench that's all. I know what would happen any way....you think 3d guys beache? the 2d guys with the 6.6 light speed cpus would cry because there scores would get beat by a air cooled cpu and "only water cooled card" I can hear it already waaaaaa my cpu speed is not helping much not fair. lets just see how the deal goes but grouping hardware for the sake of more submissions is stupid IMHO so I will say it again I still think we just need a more modern(w7+ not dx12 ..yet)3d bench that's free. oh if not then you pros and wanna be pros can just go and have a xtu or cinbench record live show jajajaja about as much fun as watching paint peel. we all know we need 3d to carry on and it may take big boobs and a round as5 to do it eye candy guys eye candy Edited January 10, 2016 by cowgut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 How about this: http://hwbot.org/newsflash/3327_upcoming_broadwell_e_core_i7_6950x_may_cost_up_to_usd_1500 Don't know if FS scales with more than 8 cores, but even if it does not next gen from Futuremark probably will. 1500$ cpu is out of the question, even for me Something needs to be done, not only with the points but also with categories. 4 core CPU with FS/FSE etc would be really nice! From what I read so far, I think the general idea is that: 3D should have equal points like 2D Hardware points should be as important as Global points There should always be a bonus for the top rankings The point distribution for Hardware Rankings is fine as it is now How competitive a global ranking is in terms of amount of participants is not so much a factor, I think. At least, I haven't seen much arguments emphasizing this aspect. Any major point I'm missing? What happened with the lowered threshold and adjusted slope for globals? Most seemed fine with that. Also don't know if anyone but the HW-benchers think HW points should be more important in the rankings. HW points (top spots) is mostly about running average GPU clocks and pair it with a golden last gen CPU. It is not so much about the HW the points indicate (the GPU). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Just some quick numbers for your suggestion @Rauf //edit: what do we do with benchmarks like GPUPI where CPU doesn't matter and participation is also not like the 2D benchmarks? 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme Categories by GPU count (4 total) GPUs Max Users 1 14432 1040 2 22824 542 3 27910 157 4 34252 108 3DMark Fire Strike Extreme Categories by GPU and CPU count (30 total) GPUs CPUs Max Users 1 1 236 1 1 2 8280 113 1 3 2224 1 1 4 12614 759 1 6 10440 375 1 8 14432 231 1 10 3383 1 1 12 3813 4 1 16 6597 3 1 20 4711 1 1 64 9896 4 2 2 2452 3 2 4 19048 302 2 6 17528 247 2 8 22827 134 2 12 10015 3 2 16 5304 1 2 20 8667 1 2 24 10262 1 2 64 5027 1 3 4 12887 33 3 6 20244 88 3 8 27910 64 3 12 4302 2 3 18 14626 1 3 20 11857 1 4 4 15600 23 4 6 25332 60 4 8 34252 55 4 64 25020 2 Edited January 11, 2016 by Massman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steponz Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 The problem with gpupi is that nvidia isn't scoring high. Not Sure if it's the opencl version they use.. but it's a problem. 4 core points for 3d would be definitely good. It would entice 3d quite a bit. I've also been thinking about oc sports lately. Off note. Why not do something with single/dual/quad 3d king there. Where it's listed with oc sports. Then someone can claim the title and be rewarded foe their effort. I also think it should be narrowed down to specific bemches. 3d11 Vantage Catzillas Gpupi Heaven 3dmark03 FS FSE FSU These are the true GPU Benchmarks. I'll start hammering out what the deal is with nvidia opencl.. this week I'll run 2100 plus on 980ti and see how it scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lays Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Really wish more people who actually bench 3d participate in these conversations. A guy buying 1 980ti should be able to get a decent amount of points just like a 6700k does in 2d.. Most gamers have cards... that excuse about people don't bench 3d because its too expensive is bs... There should be enticement for doing 3d........ plain and simple.. and there is not based upon how everything is setup on hwbot.. 4 way setups that change with hardware.. say 980 to 980ti... are about worthless.. and should be worth more.. maybe hardware points would be good there..... My major concern is cheaper cards should be worth more point values... make it more like 2D more chances to earn points.. Here is one example, I bought a 980 ti recently because my 980 couldn't handle what games I was playing at 1440p. My primary goal for my PC is gaming + browsing internet music etc. But my hobby is benching. I don't have a secondary rig for benchmarking or anything, and I am not crazy rich so I can't go out and buy a 5960x and x99 stuff for top 3d scores. So even though I have a very very good 4790k (5+ ghz ambient in physics tests) I get absolutely creamed by guys with 6 cores and 8 cores, and get almost no points whatsoever. For instance, my top FS score right now without really spending a lot of time is 18.2k or so. But people with 5960x and 980 ti at less clocks will absolutely demolish me and get like 20k+ score. Mine: http://hwbot.org/submission/3065758_lays_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_980_ti_18264_marks Guy with much lower video card clocks: http://hwbot.org/submission/2982834_metallicgr_3dmark___fire_strike_geforce_gtx_980_ti_18998_marks I would really like to be able to compete in a different type of 3D rankings, like maybe quad core firestrike, six core firestrike, like how 2D is set up. Then I could actually gain points. I know I can do legacy benchmarks, but being secluded from only doing half of the 3D benchmarks just because I don't have $2000 for x99 setup sucks!! Edited January 11, 2016 by Lays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleslammer Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It is strange how GPUPi doesn’t get more respect. About the only 3d bench that really isn’t platform dependent. My own 6970 sub check the spec’s on the platform used. http://hwbot.org/submission/3052466_aleslammer_gpupi___32b_radeon_hd_6970_1h_36min_39sec_610ms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It is strange how GPUPi doesn’t get more respect. About the only 3d bench that really isn’t platform dependent. My own 6970 sub check the spec’s on the platform used. http://hwbot.org/submission/3052466_aleslammer_gpupi___32b_radeon_hd_6970_1h_36min_39sec_610ms It all has to do with AMD not being even remotely competitive in the other 3D benches, nobody wants or cares enough to buy their stuff just to run GPUPi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasparthe Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Also don't know if anyone but the HW-benchers think HW points should be more important in the rankings. Unfortunately this is telling as to the real agenda. Increasing HW points in relation to Globals would do nothing but help out 3D, since all those low level cards would suddenly become much more attractive. It will make Global 3D and 2D less attractive since they won't be as powerful in terms of moving yourself up the rankings. So why wouldn't someone that wants to see more 3D interest not agree that HW points should be worth more in relation to Globals? Or is it that only the 3D that give globals should be worth more? In other words, make sure those that spend the most get the most points? HW points (top spots) is mostly about running average GPU clocks and pair it with a golden last gen CPU. It is not so much about the HW the points indicate (the GPU). This may be true in 3D, since every generation brings new efficiency (when your Intel), but not so in 2D. Trying to take down gold cups in Socket 462 is as hard today as it was in 2004. Even in 3D, after a certain point of competition it becomes much, much, much more about the GPU. Example: This recent sub in 8800 GTS 512: http://hwbot.org/submission/3048348_strong_island_3dmark03_geforce_8800_gts_512_mb_74160_marks Its gotten to the point that cards need to be zombie modded and extensively soldered to make it into the top spot. Certainly using the newest generation of CPU helps but that is the nature of 3D. A ton of work still went into that sub. Worth only 49.7pts. Some have even argued that the level of 'hard' should count for giving out points. Shouldn't this perhaps be worth more than this? http://hwbot.org/submission/3060316_rauf_unigine_heaven___xtreme_preset_2x_geforce_gtx_980_ti_8917.17_dx11_marks Unless the argument is that running a couple of 980Ti in SLI on stock coolers is harder than the first example? Still this thread is littered with calls from overclockers that want to see even more points added to globals for this sort of submission. In my sometimes solitary opinion, I would love to see more 8800 GTS subs with guys have to add caps, replace components, using voltage regulations cards running under LN2 than stocker coolers taking down more total points. But only my opinion, everyone decides in their own head what makes a great overclocking submission, mine happens to be the first example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) yeah but in over 10 years the 8800gts 512 only has 416 3d03 submissions sure he worked his as5 off for that score but what about someone who half a decade before add on cards who as you say added caps FOUND THE MODS and all other things involved like being on a core or sb chip with mb boards that needed mods too? should they get more points? then even he does? you cant really screw to much with hardware points because it was hard, not even global for that matter when I used to bench sub zero a lot and watched my son you know how hard that was??? lol I should get a million points if that's the case In response to lays comment above sooooo you want to run skylake or other 4/8 chips and get points? go hw scores use older/not as powerful cards. because as I say below you want global points(for a short term) its going to take cash its a no brainer as for the heaven run that bench with 2 or more "top end"cards becomes highly cpu bound he does have a cpu at over 6.+ because even with more "gpu power it will not help the scores much without the cpu being what it is. so go and get two 980ti under ln2 on a cpu thats 5.5 (besides the haswell-e since heaven has a fondness for that plaltform)or below and it would be less of what that score is....smart benching that heaven score if you ask me Edited January 11, 2016 by cowgut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K404 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Not EVERY HW-points bencher wants more HW points There's an irony in GPUPi being useless on nVidia. XTU doesn't run at ALL on AMD, but no-one minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cowgut Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 damn right that says a lot coming from you bro about the hw points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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