Elkim Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 No man, I get it very well, just another playing devilsA. Imo Ambient from point enthusiast league is where you live and stay and doing shiz. Do you really live/eat/sleep/other stuff in -20°C? Quote
ozzie Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 No man, I get it very well, just another playing devilsA. Imo Ambient from point enthusiast league is where you live and stay and doing shiz. Do you really live/eat/sleep/other stuff in -20°C? i dont give 2 jacks arse about the devils A, your opinion doesnt change the rules, bot makes the rules not you, and ive been in -40c , and no i dont thank christ, you can keep it all to yourselves but youre saying do i really live in -20c lol, get with it bloke, i really live in 20c to 45c every year lol Quote
Elkim Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 I wasn't talking to you lol. Bots rules are clear, I'm not making anything, just somebody likes bending anything for their own sake lol Quote
I.nfraR.ed Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 At -10 Russians are celebrating the warm weather. At -20 they put their shirt on. At -30 they even put a sweater. Quote
Guest cowgut Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) I want like 20 million points for this,it was a pita to bench in a half meter of snow and 10f....but but it was free and last time I looked ice is pretty cheap too. so for like 80usd on a aio(don't use 1 outside under 28f it becomes worthless) you can pretty much be right at the limit of the enthusiast league not -0 but above. so if you ask me its aok as for outside its not very cost effective snow boots heavy coat and stuff that's costly plus you have to lug all that gear outside and maybe have to shovel a spot out so you might need some snacks...oh and not to forget it could be fatal if you get very drunk or take some xannax and pass out in freezing weather.if it starts snowing you get screwed too so... if you do all that and somehow live...you are not a cheater cus cheaters are lazy mf'ers Edited March 31, 2017 by cowgut Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Elkim got all bazooka. My point is that some people over here have a shitty logic,it is ok for enthusiast to bench at -20 (with wc is quite easy) on low ambient,because it's something natural (so what ? ) but if you put ice in abucket or radiator with ice becomes not natural anymore. In my oponion it is the same,anything that gives you a capital edge over the competition . At -20 your average 5.3@1.45v becomes 5.8@1.6v so how do you think it is ok ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote
Guest cowgut Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 I think if you do it mechanically that's cheating ie:a device that monitors and chills to what you set. ice bucket aint really doing that a CHILLER DOES so yeah I am going to say it chillers should be outlawed in the enthusiast league ice buckets no. oh I remember a league had to have pictures, what makes it any different to purify that league and all subs need temps of cpu 2d both for 3d before the bench to completion or screw it just make a purist league with rules like that i mean you guys still have that advertisers xtu joke so it could only be a step up for the site lol Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Cowgut - most of the hailea type chillers don't even reach 4 degrees with plus. As for low ambient combined with a triple radiaTor and 3 delta 256 cfm to push air through it,it becomes more reliable than any bucket of ice or cheap chiller. If you say otherwise it means you never tryed this type of cooling on a cold weather. Enthusiast can never be fixed,it's a dead league,,cannot wait for my Ss to be built to go in apprentice. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote
Elkim Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 Elkim got all bazooka.My point is that some people over here have a bunnyextractionty logic,it is ok for enthusiast to bench at -20 (with wc is quite easy) on low ambient,because it's something natural (so what ? ) but if you put ice in abucket or radiator with ice becomes not natural anymore. In my oponion it is the same,anything that gives you a capital edge over the competition . At -20 your average 5.3@1.45v becomes 5.8@1.6v so how do you think it is ok ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Not sure if you're saying what you're saying and mean it or you just saying some people (not you) think in that way. Anyway its really bunny logic but I have a saying for that. "You can't just explain to the dog that he's a dog"... Anyway same logic would be if I get small LN2 maker under my sink and I'd say It's fine and completely natural because it's being made from air in my house so it's enthusiast league-able even at fullpot lol Quote
Fasttrack Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Enthusiast can never be fixed,it's a dead league,,cannot wait for my Ss to be built to go in apprentice. This phrase wisely sums up the whole discussion ( and many other similar discussions ). The same reason that led me to move to Apprentice League ( God I hate that name ). Kudos to you sir Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Ooh,it can be fixed but at great cost,which will not be desirable for admins . Subzero (apprentice,extreme /elite ) and positive ambient cooling (enthusiast league) and with random checkups if you find anything suspicious with a sub ask to replicate the result with a video prooving that. If cannot -> banned from hwbot. Of course you cannot ask someone to replicate a result from 6 months ago,maybe he doesn't have the hardware anymore,but in first week it should be ok. After a few bans people will join the proper league or will stay in the limits of "not subzero cooling" . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote
Elkim Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 Nah, remove cooling lol, if you wanna be first, get LN2 and do whatever you need to do to be first. From what I know part of the staff are up to do that, but somebody is blocking that Quote
Rauf Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 I think this is an irrelevant discussion because enthusiast league as a whole is broken. Some of the reasons why it is broken: - It is pay to win: Buy server hw or 4-way titans with 6950X and collect WR points. - HW-points are broken: You can get your hw-points very high with locked skylakes and probably upcoming locked kabys etc. It is impossible to get 50-pointers on ambient cooling in "proper" categories. - The whole cooling issue: What is allowed/not allowed? How can it be enforced? Is it a good thing to prevent people from pushing their systems by benching outside, with ice buckets, tap water etc? - People are discouraged by the amount if rules (written and unwritten, like cooling categories) and verification rules. - Points distribution as there is no real scaling of points below top 3, which is impossible in enthusiast league. In my mind fixing the enthusiast league should be top priority. If there is no good ground to stand on OC will continue to dwindle. Some of the changes I would like to see for enthusiast league (and maybe elite/extreme as well): - Get rid of WR points. No pay to win! - Equal score=shared points. Mostly locked CPUs will be affected by this. - Get rid of apprentice league and allow all cooling except SS, dry ice, cascade, LN2. This will promote actually pushing your system to the max, and this is what OC is about. It will make it harder to cheat as the things people normally do is no longer considered cheating. Not everyone can bench outside at -20C, but everyone can get access to ice and cool their rads to about -20. Yes, people can still cheat with SS or LN2 but it is so much harder to access. - Handle verification rules less strictly for enthusiasts (except maybe for top 10 ranked enthusiasts). If there is something missing in a screenshot, but a valid link to Fire strike or whatever benchmark, what's the problem? Also for competitions, if there is something small missing but the sub is very likely to be legit, why discourage the user by blocking the score if he/she is not top 10 and the score does not affect the final top 10 ranking in the comp? Elites and extremes can be expected to know every benchmark and read the rules carefully, but why be so strict for the ones that keep it at an appropriate hobby level? It is hard enough to get everything right even for elites... - And finally, find a way to better differentiate globals and hw-points for enthusiast league. The difference between top enthusiast score and 20th place is like 3-5 points... Quote
Splave Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Then you have no place in enthusiast imo... Since you bring this up, I wonder what @Christian Ney @websmile @Massman thinking about this, if they call me wrong, you'll have my apology you have invoked the holy trinity, may god have mercy on your soul Quote
Elkim Posted March 31, 2017 Author Posted March 31, 2017 you have invoked the holy trinity, may god have mercy on your soul Well you know how people are praying to God whole life and still waiting for a just sign... Quote
warper Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 In enthusiast league many people use ice or bench outdoor. The problem is that it is undetectable and there is not a clear rule that specifies it. I was in enthusiast I post a picture with an ice bottle, we seed me in apprentice me in apprentice without notice, I agree rules are rules but rules must be the same for every one and written somewhere. Actually noone can clearly define where are limits, the proff is this topics. Nobody knowed, everybody do as he think right and this is a total mess. look at this sub : vadimua`s 3DMark05 score: 21687 marks with a GeForce 8600 GT 256MB GDDR3 We cleary see ice on the picture and it's a gold 50pts, The score is more than 1 year and vadimua is still in enthusiast. there is many score like that in enthusiast. I was too honest to have posted my real configuration, I'm sure others are not as good as me. For me there is 2 solutions: send all the people using this type of cooling in apprentice. (impossible) Allow this type of cooling. if you want a clear league you must allow this type of cooling, some peoples are not honnest and will cheat ever and ever. Quote
Mr.Scott Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 look at this sub : vadimua`s 3DMark05 score: 21687 marks with a GeForce 8600 GT 256MB GDDR3 We cleary see ice on the picture and it's a gold 50pts, The score is more than 1 year and vadimua is still in enthusiast. there is many score like that in enthusiast. Slipped through the cracks because nobody ever reported it. Move that guy to Apprentice right now. There is no excuse not to. Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Like this i have also a sub,spi32m with 4790k at a local 4790k contest where the only rule was that idle temperature should be higher than 10 degrees. I put my radiator in a water bucket with ice and recorded the whole run. Do i need to disable this sub or is it ok ? Realtemp was there for the whole run,one of the requirements. suzuki`s SuperPi - 32M score: 5min 31sec 625ms with a Core i7 4790K Quote
Mr.Scott Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Like this i have also a sub,spi32m with 4790k at a local 4790k contest where the only rule was that idle temperature should be higher than 10 degrees.I put my radiator in a water bucket with ice and recorded the whole run. Do i need to disable this sub or is it ok ? Realtemp was there for the whole run,one of the requirements. suzuki`s SuperPi - 32M score: 5min 31sec 625ms with a Core i7 4790K You are an Apprentice. You are deliberately chilling water. Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Will disable that sub,those points are no good for me ). Le: yes,but look when it was submited,back on those days it was the norm,i did it only for that specific contest,lmfao. The sub is disabled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Edited March 31, 2017 by suzuki Quote
Mr.Scott Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Honorable. :celebration: EDIT- if it were a 2 league system, you could have kept those points. Edited March 31, 2017 by Mr.Scott Quote
KaRtA Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 The rule only came in from april 2016 I believe. When I spoke with Mods at the toile, they were hesitant to move anyone over to apprentice league that had used an ice bucket prior. Opinions may have changed now. @suzuki , IMO, if you are in minus ambient temperature, it's a tough dellema to decide as it technically is ambient, but if you put submitted as custom water but in the comments listed ambient temp at -20, I feel that would explain the situation and make the sub transparent for all. But if you are using ice bucket, there is no doubt you artificially cooling, which below is listed to move you to apprentice. Have a read through all this. http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=153758 That picture I showed prior is a chiller, no doubt. Warper, sorry but blaming that rules aren't clear is bullshit. Thanks for showing an actual photo of your setup (unlike others) but where you failed is during the submissions you chose the wrong cooling method, it should have been water chilled/cold. Totally agree though, @christain_Ney the rules need updating on the main page for clarity on what is appropriate cooling for the ambient leagues, or we will keep seeing more and more rookies coming through clueless. Be good if you guys would chime in here please. Quote
suzuki Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 They we're only 3 points ),no need. It is important not to loose the screen and to preserve the league . Hell no with 2 leagues,no chance in this one ,as it is. And my "chilled water" was handicaped by limitations ). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote
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