Ace123 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Its getting absolutly ridiculous just how many submissions are being made with Intel processors that are NOWHERE near release date. Looking at the top submissions list every day for "normal" people us daunting and quite honestly makes me want to quit. Intel is greedily "buying" that list in an underhanded BS move and guys are signing on and letting them because THEY get free processors and records. Hwbot has to stop allowing this behavior. Intel coordinated with several overclockers to release their ln2 submissions for all these unreleased processors SPECIFICALLY on Threadrippers launch day for the single purpose of burying any publicity that AMD would have received on the actual launch of their product. Now we have to sit through months of watching specific overclockers work with hardware we cant obtain take records they dont deserve with hardware that isnt out. In my opinion this is a slap in the face to overclocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Deal with it. Sponsored guys that work in the industry will ALWAYS get new hardware to test before the public. That's their job. Don't like it?.......quit the hobby or strive to get a job in the industry. B1tching about it won't get you anywhere, and will change nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Actually what ill do is address the problems as I see them exactly as I did and youll deal with it. Ive been overclocking for WAY longer than most people here, and it has NEVER been this bad. In almost every other form of organized competition on the planet, there are rules set in place to keep companies from "purchasing" the leader boards. Its painfully obvious that hwbot needs to evolve like the rest of the world to include a rule set like this. Edited September 17, 2017 by Ace123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splave Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I understand where you are coming from. But I have never gotten a single CPU from Intel ever. I HAVE dedicated myself to a company which has allowed me access to what they receive. Maybe the companies are to blame in the end. But Remeber they are also trying to sell ryzen and threadripper mobos also so any early release doesnt really benefit them at all, probably the opposite. How do u feel about release days in general like theoverclockers thread ripper submission benched with asus? I would assume that cpu was the best of quite a few. Bit of a challenge for a normal overclocker. Free is also an interesting word. Everything is a loan. ES processors are given back. Motherboards with reworking and covered in Vaseline with 3 slots not working and bent pins in the socket from being beaten are worthless. The elite league is a lot less glamorous then you could imagine. The time you put in and what is expected of you is insane. Many companies won't even suggest posting if you are second place behind a company they hate. But I see how it can look for other's point of view. I think this is why the evil evil elite league exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Actually what ill do is address the problems as I see them exactly as I did and youll deal with it. Ive been overclocking for WAY longer than most people here, and it has NEVER been this bad. In almost every other form of organized competition on the planet, there are rules set in place to keep companies from "purchasing" the leader boards. Its painfully obvious that hwbot needs to evolve like the rest of the world to include a rule set like this. I'll laugh right in your face. This is not an "organized sport". It is a semi organized competitive hobby that is totally supported by sponsorship money. As for your amount of time overclocking, I laugh at that too. It means nothing. FWIW, I've been into this hobby for 2 decades. I'll still deal with it. I'll be around well after you throw in the towel. What YOU have to deal with is........it's not your site or your rules. You comply and have fun with what you're doing, or GTFO. It's that simple. Edited September 17, 2017 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUGGER Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Purely speculating on this: "Would you look at that AMD just announced product models aligned with our current product naming convention." Conversation ended with: "Lets lift embargo on the 7960X in conjunction with AMD launch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 I love how all someone has to do is be a dick and somehow thats immediately "facts" or "hard truths". It is not. Im not going to be affraid to bring up issues because a few guys who benefit from the status quo are happy with the lopsided way things are. Intel is purchasing the leaderboard by allowing specific overclockers to benchmark hardware they have no intention of releasing soon in order to bury their competitors launches and create an image. We used to call those ES samples but intel is side stepping that as well. There needs to be rules to keep bullies like intel (who has a long history of shady behavior) from manipulating the leaderboards like this. It is a problem and i will continue to bring it up. Be a dick all you want but THOSE are the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GeorgeStorm Posted September 18, 2017 Members Share Posted September 18, 2017 I love how all someone has to do is be a dick and somehow thats immediately "facts" or "hard truths". It is not. Im not going to be affraid to bring up issues because a few guys who benefit from the status quo are happy with the lopsided way things are. Intel is purchasing the leaderboard by allowing specific overclockers to benchmark hardware they have no intention of releasing soon in order to bury their competitors launches and create an image. We used to call those ES samples but intel is side stepping that as well. There needs to be rules to keep bullies like intel (who has a long history of shady behavior) from manipulating the leaderboards like this. It is a problem and i will continue to bring it up. Be a dick all you want but THOSE are the facts. As a general rule I'm on your side, but it's not really Intel doing it as far as I'm aware, as Splave mentioned it's actually motherboard manufacturers who are supporting various overclockers and possibly providing them with cpus etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wimpzilla Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) I'm a bit deceived by the general answer from "La Crème de la Crème" of the overclocking world on a sensible topic as this one. Would have expected an overall interesting discussion from people that should leverage higher knowledge in the field. Unfortunately there is no way that an experimented overclocker reach the same goals as the users that work in industry, it is a fact. Simply because you will not get any binned cpu/gpu under your hand. You must wait the cpu/gpu came out and then buy a more expensive binned die from a shop to hope get the same result. Or be extremely lucky to get a random good die. The second thing is that users that work within industry have a bigger advantage. They can troubleshoot their oc because could leverage schematics, components, datasheet. The best example is that manufacturer even remove the usual basic motherboard diagram, there is no way that a normal user would reach these crucial information. So yeah, as everything change, the overclocking followed! Edited September 18, 2017 by Wimpzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 As a general rule I'm on your side, but it's not really Intel doing it as far as I'm aware, as Splave mentioned it's actually motherboard manufacturers who are supporting various overclockers and possibly providing them with cpus etc. Intel holds the embargo. When intel releases these processors for testing they do so under NDA. Breaking an NDA will be met with consequences. Intel decides when that NDA is lifted and thats when we see results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I kind of sympathize with the retail "availability" side of the argument, but it's been this way forever, so it is what it is. But the rest of it pretty much reads like butt hurt over Intel crushing AMD's TR release party with forthcoming products that actually perform to the hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Butthurt amd fan. Try not to come across as one.But by all means, so far this thread is really filling my weekly hwbot meltdown thread quota. Before you make idiotic claims like this, at least do your homework and check my profile and youll see a LONG history of intel cpus. Endorsing behavior like this from intel is EXACTLY how we ended up in the last stagnant intel controlled market for the last 10 years when intel used their dollar and market position to hang AMD, and all of us, out to dry. This place is currently a mechanism for that bullying. So what do we all do? Just say "oh well i like it so its ok with me, hard truths, gtfo if you dont like it" or do we recognize the fact that we are sort of shephards of the community and put rules in place that create a fair environment? One is the right answer. The other makes you part of the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 I kind of sympathize with the retail "availability" side of the argument, but it's been this way forever, so it is what it is. But the rest of it pretty much reads like butt hurt over Intel crushing AMD's TR release party with forthcoming products that actually perform to the hype. Im not affraid to be called a fanboy. Thats what we label anyone these days who have a position that isnt favorable to our favorite side. We're all fanboys. Let er rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Endorsing behavior like this from intel is EXACTLY how we ended up in the last stagnant intel controlled market for the last 10 years when intel used their dollar and market position to hang AMD, and all of us, out to dry. This place is currently a mechanism for that bullying. So what do we all do? You do realize that Intel is a major sponsor of HWB right? You're smoking crack if you think you have any chance of getting HWB to dump sponsors to "make it fair" for a handful of nobody overclockers to acquire a few worthless boints. Edited September 18, 2017 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Being sponsored by, and being purchased are two different things. When can accept sponsorship while maintaining integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 lol 3 letters X-T-U Think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauf Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I think a decent number of hwbot users actually agrees with you. It's just that everyone has learned long ago that nothing ever changes to the better here. So why try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I think a decent number of hwbot users actually agrees with you. It's just that everyone has learned long ago that nothing ever changes to the better here. So why try? Ive been doing this a long time. Ive invested a portion of my life to hwbot and overclocking in general since I began posting my first overclocks on a funky little site named pimprig. If I notice something crappy about a community I belong to and dont bring it up, how will I ever effect positive change? Am I just as bad as the next guy? I have no problem with Intel, ive been an enthusiast overclocking their processors for a LONG time. I had a 386... they have in the past reacted.... poorly in an attempt to protect what they see as theirs, Market share. Part of our jobs as consumers is to check that behavior. If we reward a company with business and positive outlook for doing well qnd delivering great products, why shouldnt we do the opposite for negativity or shady behavior from their marketing department. Is Strategically lifting an embargo and letting select overclockers release overclocking results on processors that wont be released for months in order to squash your direct competitors launch illegal? No, but it sure is hell shady, and if we all just shrug our shoulders and say "meh, i dont care" then how far will we let them go? At what point does someone say "whoa dude thats bulls**t", i want to protect the competetive market that forces these companies to push innovation and deliver us bwtter products faster, not just bully the competition into stagnation and then milk the current architechtire for 9 generations with garbage incremental increases. Thats why I bring it up even though its worse than yelling into a vacuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I appreciate you raising this issue, @Ace123. I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see where the opinions lead ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I appreciate you raising this issue, @Ace123. I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see where the opinions lead ... I appriciate you at least giving a listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Please stay on topic, guys. This is a sensible topic and definitely worth exchanging thoughts over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Its getting absolutly ridiculous just how many submissions are being made with Intel processors that are NOWHERE near release date. Looking at the top submissions list every day for "normal" people us daunting and quite honestly makes me want to quit. Intel is greedily "buying" that list in an underhanded BS move and guys are signing on and letting them because THEY get free processors and records. Hwbot has to stop allowing this behavior. Intel coordinated with several overclockers to release their ln2 submissions for all these unreleased processors SPECIFICALLY on Threadrippers launch day for the single purpose of burying any publicity that AMD would have received on the actual launch of their product. Now we have to sit through months of watching specific overclockers work with hardware we cant obtain take records they dont deserve with hardware that isnt out. In my opinion this is a slap in the face to overclocking. I'm relatively new to submitting points to HWbot. So a different perspective. You've had some very good answers already from more experienced guys here. Ivybridge release was exciting for me, my first decent fast system. So back then I used to marvel at all the fast scores & wonder how did they do that? _______ You have elite / extreme guys with access to special parts in the industry. Sure they get to run ES & pre release stuff before the rest of us. They also have proven ability with LN2 & special cooling. I applaud those massive scores they do. Also they risk alot of nice hardware, pushing parts to the limit. But it's also a costly hobby for most of us. ______ So yes perhaps it looks as though an unfair playing field. What can you do? Try harder & bench harder. But be fair & honest on your efforts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoqolatl Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see where the opinions lead ... Like Rauf said, many people unhappy with some double standards might not care enough to post here. Monitoring this discussion is under selection bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxinite Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Tbh, no points until products are available to buy would be reasonable. The GFPs and WRs are advertised on the front page anyway by sdougal? So it's not like they would miss out on publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace123 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Lets put it this way. 7980xe release date is today and fugger posts a bunch of zen2 benchmarks. Nobody sees zen 2 for months. Vega releases today, kingpin posts volta results. You cant touch one. Vaporware at the moment. Pascal refresh gtx 2080 release today, splave posts Navi results. Not releasing soon. Which of these are we ok with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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