Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I think an wrapper would not fix the problem. replacing files during test will also work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Easier than you'd think, but I wont disclose details for obvious reasons. Next month is a busy one for me, but in that time you guys can decide what is legal and what is not. FlashDesktop was allowed, why would the wrapper need to check for TW tweaks? As for WBR/TE, I wrote the scripts therefore I know what they do, not hard to protect against it Willing to bet ? The calculation itself shouldn't be changed. If you change the size of the windows, it's obviously in some way messing with the calculation. I have no idea what that flashdesktop thingy does, my post is just general. I am, however, opening up for the surprising(?) fact that we've allowed too much in the past, and that we therefore need to start blocking what seems to be against the rules. If you don't like this, prove that they're legal. We can't give benefit of doubt when the score goes up by a huge margin. Agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) I only will trust an wrapper, if it is not created by an bencher.... Hwbot staff itself must make it:) Maybee an wrapper can Help that files cant replaced during an test... But how can it check scripts that change options? Ie runs outside the bench. Edited September 30, 2012 by Moose83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I only will trust an wrapper, if it is not created by an bencher....Hwbot staff itself must make it:) As insecure as the Unigine one or the bugged AQ3? This is like saying a PCMark employee has advantage over benchers for knowing how the bench works, right? Whatever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I only will trust an wrapper, if it is not created by an bencher....Hwbot staff itself must make it:) Maybee an wrapper can Help that files cant replaced during an test... But how can it check scripts that change options? Ie runs outside the bench. HWB staff ARE benchers. @ GENiEBEN - I think your offer was most generous, futile maybe, but generous just the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSebaSXx Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 What say we all dump PCM05 and redirect our energies into destroying PCM 7 next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 No, try 3dmark99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint19 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 No, try 3dmark99 Thats for 3D...pcmark is on 2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumonpathak Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 as soon as one gives out ALL the tweaks am gonna dump this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The Wrapper idea sounds very good for me. But the wrapper must detect, if scripts in the Background are do something, and gives no score;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 I will talk with futuremark about this, maybe we come up with something interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Nice Christian!!! Its the only way to keep this Benchmark and make it fair for all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Nice Christian!!! Its the only way to keep this Benchmark and make it fair for all! Don't get your hopes up. With PCM7 coming out, they just might say F' it and retire support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Of course, i keep my hope! Thats the only benchmark we have, where only tweaking scores, and not great expensive HW! Dont let this lovely Benchmark die and make it fair for all now;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 So say someone makes a wrapper that works 100% and there is no way to cheat. What happens to the scores that have been showing up for the past couple of months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 So say someone makes a wrapper that works 100% and there is no way to cheat. What happens to the scores that have been showing up for the past couple of months? Excellent question. You can't leave them. They'll be there till the end of time, and you can't pick and choose which one's because legitimate scores will become collateral damage. Only way I can see it is to wipe all PCM05 scores and start from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Well, the tweaks that we're talking about are easily detected because of insane boosts. We just have to find them and block them, simple as that. Probably a fair bit of work, but in theory quite simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Don't get your hopes up. With PCM7 coming out, they just might say F' it and retire support. That's what they do. When they had issues with PCMark Vantage and singlecores they just removed support, after having official support for a few years already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) That's what they do. When they had issues with PCMark Vantage and singlecores they just removed support, after having official support for a few years already. That's why I mentioned it. It's the easy out. Anything that can be done to save PCM05 will have to be done here. FM is unlikely to help due to the age of the bench and PCM7 coming out. I'm all for trying a wrapper. I don't dislike the bench, I dislike the way it's being exploited. Edited September 30, 2012 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Of course, i keep my hope! Thats the only benchmark we have, where only tweaking scores, and not great expensive HW! Dont let this lovely Benchmark die and make it fair for all now;) Don't hold your breath. I'm still against tweaks that change the subtest score but a considerable amount, unless they're proven to be allright - wrapper or not. If a wrapper isn't designed to catch a sertain type of tweaks we still need hard evidence to allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 The wrapper should have the te and webpage tweak in it. Thats the only way to save actually scores. And new scores with the wrapper and tweaks are allmost the same then: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DopeLex Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 That sounds good for me. Wrapper with tweaks integrated, so everyone has the same chances and all the currently uploaded scores are not obsolete and it isn't necessary to delete them - that saves much time for the moderators and the upcoming scores are based on the same tweaks and software-settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Yes not only safe work for the staff! We cant delete all tweakted scores and say to everybody you must rebench everything! I think iam not the only one who have selled many benched CPUs;) But some points are not clear... what about Audio comp or MA? I dont use it atm but we must discuss it too. Also we have to talk about AMDs magic bug driver! Edited October 1, 2012 by Moose83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DopeLex Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Bug driver - disallow, only reproducable on AMD, no real world performance. MA and audio either allow and integrate in wrapper or disallow completely. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.nfraR.ed Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Or just disable points and interest will fade away by itself PCMark lovers, don't tell me you all bench it because of the global points...if you're so passionate about the bench, then you will continue even without points, am I right? Don't think so . There are some real PCMark addicts, but I don't see them posting scores lately. Except 1 or 2. They all stopped benching when the scores got so skewed that you can't tell anymore if it's a bug, cheat, tweak or something else... E.g. I bench a lot of old stuff, just because I love it and have fun. I don't get a lot of points, sometimes just 1pt or so, but I don't care about it. These points don't even add up for my global ranking. Edited October 1, 2012 by I.nfraR.ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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