Moose83 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 What about all other hdd programms? No one shows the (bug) Power! I offert Tests in Team cup, remember? @GenieBen, ever tested ramdisk really, or tryed to get 2 combined? And add some stuff on it? 6g Virus scan on Intel, lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 @GenieBen, ever tested ramdisk really, or tryed to get 2 combined? And add some stuff on it? 6g Virus scan on Intel, lol... Software rd not hardware! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanutzuAC Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) I think that adding new tweaks that involves altering of the PCM05(its files) will result in scores no longer representative for the benchmark. This is the main reason to forbid this practice. In addition, it is not so fair for those who realy worked for their results in this benchmark, using HDDs or SSDs on raid0, iRam and extreme cooling, investing time, hard work and money for those results, becouse now, with 2 or 3 simple (yet alowed) tweaks, we boost the scores and piss on those people's harware(sorry for expression). Furthermore, we don't have to freez on temperatures below 0 nor to get tired by pouring LN2, or be under stress by other problems that comes with LN2 cooling, to match or beat those results. Equitable it is to deny the use of all tweaks (except LOD wich is well known for some time), remove the "XP startup" limit, ramdisk banned for obvious reasons, a program(wrraper) to monitor the codecs used, use of internet explorer and the type of partition in wich the HDD test are run. In case someone can't justify a big score, if it is a bug, rerun or delete and if the person keeps doing similar things, banned for life. This is the best solution. Another solution (but not so good) is to allow the tweaks allready mentionated in the first page and Flash Desktop, but nothing more. I say "not so good" becouse we force the people mentionated earlier to start all over again. But on the other hand we don't have to delete the submitted scores Edited September 29, 2012 by DanutzuAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint19 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think that adding new tweaks that involves altering of the PCM05(its files) will result in scores no longer representative for the benchmark. This is the main reason to forbid this practice. In addition, it is not so fair for those who realy worked for their results in this benchmark, using HDDs or SSDs on raid0, iRam and extreme cooling, investing time, hard work and money for those results, becouse now, with 2 or 3 simple (yet alowed) tweaks, we boost the scores and piss on those people's harware(sorry for expression). Furthermore, we don't have to freez on temperatures below 0 nor to get tired by pouring LN2, or be under stress by other problems that comes with LN2 cooling, to match or beat those results. Equitable it is to deny the use of all tweaks (except LOD wich is well known for some time), remove the "XP startup" limit, ramdisk banned for obvious reasons, a program(wrraper) to monitor the codecs used, use of internet explorer and the type of partition in wich the HDD test are run. In case someone can't justify a big score, if it is a bug, rerun or delete and if the person keeps doing similar things, banned for life. This is the best solution. Another solution (but not so good) is to allow the tweaks allready mentionated in the first page and Flash Desktop, but nothing more. I say "not so good" becouse we force the people mentionated earlier to start all over again. But on the other hand we don't have to delete the submitted scores I leave the pcmark05 bench for all those tweaks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think that adding new tweaks that involves altering of the PCM05(its files) will result in scores no longer representative for the benchmark. This is the main reason to forbid this practice. In addition, it is not so fair for those who realy worked for their results in this benchmark, using HDDs or SSDs on raid0, iRam and extreme cooling, investing time, hard work and money for those results, becouse now, with 2 or 3 simple (yet alowed) tweaks, we boost the scores and piss on those people's harware(sorry for expression). Furthermore, we don't have to freez on temperatures below 0 nor to get tired by pouring LN2, or be under stress by other problems that comes with LN2 cooling, to match or beat those results. Equitable it is to deny the use of all tweaks (except LOD wich is well known for some time), remove the "XP startup" limit, ramdisk banned for obvious reasons, a program(wrraper) to monitor the codecs used, use of internet explorer and the type of partition in wich the HDD test are run. In case someone can't justify a big score, if it is a bug, rerun or delete and if the person keeps doing similar things, banned for life. This is the best solution. Another solution (but not so good) is to allow the tweaks allready mentionated in the first page and Flash Desktop, but nothing more. I say "not so good" becouse we force the people mentionated earlier to start all over again. But on the other hand we don't have to delete the submitted scores This is exactly why it's impossible to moderate such results. You can "piss on" other people's scores despite being waaaaaaaaaay behind in terms of clock speed. How you can more than double a score and still not alter the way the benchmark runs is beyond me. Even in superpi 32m and 3Dmark01 you can't do anything close to that. Efficiency should be about making a given calculation run as efficiently as possible, and you simply can't do what have been done recently without making the calculation differ alot from what it's supposed to be. And if you piss on others with yor lower clocks, then you do the same thing. legal or not. Changing thread count as we do in powertoy is fair enough, though. The other settings... not sure. Still, very little we can do against this. Better to just retire it from serious competition here (there's always the ORB if you're not happy fighting for gold cups without points). The moderation crew don't get any $$$ for this, unlike the people at FM. I'm not spending hours and hours on moderating all these funny looking subs for free, that's a fact. Pay me, and I'll consider it. I got paypal:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I just don't have the time to do this... I hardly find time to moderate the results and if I do, I can't moderate PCM05 scores because nearly every day you guys come up with new tweaks. It's just impossible for us to test them all and aprove every single result. Like knut said: my PayPal account is ready Personally I don't like the PCM05 anymore. I liked it back in 2008 but now it's 98% about tweaks and 2% hardware. Imo this is not what a benchmark is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanutzuAC Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 knopflerbruce "piss on" it was just a figure of speech, I already apologized for it. Was intended to underline and to highlight the differences between a score with or without the tweaks and the situation in wich we put those who did not used the tweaks, despite their hardware. I admit, the words are not quite well chosen. Apologies again. You are right, it is hard to moderate, but please, look the way I see things: In this moment are some subtests wich have documented and aproved tweaks. Tomorow I will make some tests to come with examples. The simplest solution is that if a subtest is not one of those mentioned in the first page of the topic, with a reasonable boost, it can only be considered a bug or a cheating attempt. In first case the person responsable has the obligation to retake the test or voluntarely deleted, if not and it is not the first attempt... the solution is obvious. Yes, involves alot of work, questions asked, it is easy to say, harder to do. The best outcome in this story is that if you take out the points, I see no reason to buy a SSD nor a better graphic card, in which case I keep the money. der8auer Regarding the %, in my case is under 50, so I have alot to learn. Ban all tweaks, those who have used are asked polite to repeat the tests and to replace them in a reasonable period, if not, deleted automaticaly. Those who report can provide their result as comparision, along with another 2-3 relevant examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) As stated many many times before, when the mods admit it can't be moderated, it's time to eliminate the bench, or at least the points. Personally I don't like the PCM05 anymore. I liked it back in 2008 but now it's 98% about tweaks and 2% hardware. Imo this is not what a benchmark is about. Evidence of a perfectly good bench ruined by hackers. Take away the points, I guaranty nobody will waste their time on it any more. Edited September 29, 2012 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As stated many many times before, when the mods admit it can't be moderated, it's time to eliminate the bench, or at least the points. Evidence of a perfectly good bench ruined by hackers. Ohh Jolly thanks. A benchmark using such piss poor coding deserves to go down, time to replace it with something more secure. If enough people decide they like PCMark05 played fair I will make a wrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 knopflerbruce"piss on" it was just a figure of speech, I already apologized for it. Was intended to underline and to highlight the differences between a score with or without the tweaks and the situation in wich we put those who did not used the tweaks, despite their hardware. I admit, the words are not quite well chosen. Apologies again. You are right, it is hard to moderate, but please, look the way I see things: In this moment are some subtests wich have documented and aproved tweaks. Tomorow I will make some tests to come with examples. The simplest solution is that if a subtest is not one of those mentioned in the first page of the topic, with a reasonable boost, it can only be considered a bug or a cheating attempt. In first case the person responsable has the obligation to retake the test or voluntarely deleted, if not and it is not the first attempt... the solution is obvious. Yes, involves alot of work, questions asked, it is easy to say, harder to do. The best outcome in this story is that if you take out the points, I see no reason to buy a SSD nor a better graphic card, in which case I keep the money. der8auer Regarding the %, in my case is under 50, so I have alot to learn. Ban all tweaks, those who have used are asked polite to repeat the tests and to replace them in a reasonable period, if not, deleted automaticaly. Those who report can provide their result as comparision, along with another 2-3 relevant examples. "piss on" was not the wrong words, I just used your expression to highlight what I meant:) I've read alot worse in here:D Another problem is that even some of those "approved" tweaks could be wrong. We're not experts, even we do make mistakes. powertoy was disallowed in the beginning, and then allowed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 If enough people decide they like PCMark05 played fair I will make a wrapper So you're admitting that it's not being played fair then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 So you're admitting that it's not being played fair? Ehm, I dont play the game at all, what does that say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Ehm, I dont play the game at all, what does that say? Understood. I don't play either. I find it ironic that in the not so distant past, Optytrooper was labeled a PCM05 cheat for suspicion of using powertoy, that was never proven BTW, and what goes on now makes that look paltry in comparison. Now it's all high fives and "nice tweak" and nobody seems to think anythings wrong with that. It's bullsh1t. Edited September 30, 2012 by Mr.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Understood. I don't play either. I find it ironic that in the not so distant past, Optytrooper was labeled a PCM05 cheat for suspicion of using powertoy, that was never proven BTW, and what goes on now makes that look paltry in comparison. Now it's all high fives and "nice tweak" and nobody seems to think anythings wrong with that. It's bullsh1t. I'm almost certain that many people see that it's wrong. I bet even the people doing it can see something wrong in it but they get away with it. Most people probably just don't give a shit and don't say anything. I just stopped running pcm05. I did it for team cup, but it was just for the competition points. A few months ago I probably would have disagreed with your view on pcm05, but now I have to agree with you. It has become a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose83 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 MLets call it scriptmark... I liked pcm05 beginning for 3 years ago... Beginning with 1 ssd i play it... Later with 4 ssd getting much points... many people spend a lot of time and money on this bench, to go the usual way in this bench....normally it scores to 70% storage, but now??? Its a shame what happened to the bench!!! Also its an shame what happened to the pioniers of this bench!!! The last Pionier that plays pcm05, bught storage for many thousands of Dollar, sitting now @ home, try to figure the tweaks, but they arnt tweaks, for me only they are cheats, not other kind... I also went the usually way, buing areca and beginn to play the game... i was happy to set a WR, and the only one, who recogniced me are Gluvocio and SteveRo! Steve is the last Pionier in this bench!!! Its an shame, what happened to him!!!!!!!!!!! He is the only one who plays always fair, trusting all tweaks are legal and try to figure it out. Its an shame!!!! The last Pionier cant score against such,,, tweaks,,,, because thinking its legal! SteveRo, i can feel with you, you where always hard to beat, in an timse where pcmark was pcmark. Ever fair and pushing me with your comments, and thanks my friend!You are an great guy fairplaying the whole time!But now, this is not the bench, we where playing long time ago... Shame on all, who named an script supertweak!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poparamiro Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 No points for this "bench". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanutzuAC Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 If enough people decide they like PCMark05 played fair I will make a wrapper. That's the best solution! No more wierd tweaks, if you want a high score, work for it and if this it is not enough, buy hardware, change cooling system, as others had did in the past. In time we will clean the database by tweaked scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted September 30, 2012 Crew Share Posted September 30, 2012 ...but now it's 98% about tweaks and 2% hardware. Imo this is not what a benchmark is about. Darn right Roman... Heck I have to run 6ghz flat to be 45K points behind a guy on stock air clocks trailing me with +/- 2500Mhz less CPU speed. But they know the software in and out... how is that for a comparison... I love the way you software guys dig out all the settings and co, but I think the whining has to stop as it will lead to the loss of all of them precious gained points... with or without the scripts,tweaks,... I would just say post your scores, you still get credited with big points for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtfalke Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I liked it back in 2008 but now it's 98% about tweaks and 2% hardware. Imo this is not what a benchmark is about. TRUE!!! We can compare these "twik´s" as lucid virtu in 3D ... hardware is useless here ..."Lucid Virtu PCM" power:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gappo Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Understood. I don't play either. I find it ironic that in the not so distant past, Optytrooper was labeled a PCM05 cheat for suspicion of using powertoy, that was never proven BTW, and what goes on now makes that look paltry in comparison. Now it's all high fives and "nice tweak" and nobody seems to think anythings wrong with that. It's bullsh1t. Nope never proven, just had countless submissions removed for using powertoy... http://www.3dmark.com/pcm05/3171703 This is Audio Comp Tweak, 4 times higher than standart... Validated ORB Futuremark link. But, can you say, what i did??? Did i replace the Codec in working Folder or other stuff??? Test it by your own, change Codec in PCM working folder and try to go to Futuremark with it...it wouldnt work, you get error 10 by coruppted files;) All guys, using high Audio Comp cant go to ORB, because they changed Codec. Gluvecco can do also it with ORB Link, but who would you moderate it? Like your sempron sub? lol http://hwbot.org/submission/2315557_moose83_pcmark_2005_sempron_150_49637_marks A wrapper would be awesome GEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Scott Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Nope never proven, just had countless submissions removed for using powertoy... Yup, that's right. Now those subs should be re-instated, unless you're just going to pick and choose who's being called a cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Turrican Posted September 30, 2012 Crew Share Posted September 30, 2012 a wrapper would be awesome. i would pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der8auer Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I'd also donate for a wrapper. But how does it solve the codec and tweak issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 A wrapper COULD work, but I wonder how you'd detect for example non-standard size of the windows in TW, text edit modifications made during the test and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) I'd also donate for a wrapper. But how does it solve the codec and tweak issues? Easier than you'd think, but I wont disclose details for obvious reasons. Next month is a busy one for me, but in that time you guys can decide what is legal and what is not. A wrapper COULD work, but I wonder how you'd detect for example non-standard size of the windows in TW, text edit modifications made during the test and so on. FlashDesktop was allowed, why would the wrapper need to check for TW tweaks? As for WBR/TE, I wrote the scripts therefore I know what they do, not hard to protect against it replacing files during test will also work... Willing to bet ? Edited September 30, 2012 by GENiEBEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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