R5: Pro OC V2 - Pro OC Cup introduction

[Lucky_n00b]

I understand all your concerns and all your points of views ... but the Pro OC Cup is definitely coming. Development is scheduled to start next week .

 

So, just to clarify, to enter the Pro OC Cup, we have to find 2 more team-mate to form a group of 3, right?

 

Does that team-mate have to be from Pro OC League, or can be anyone?

 

 

Thanks

[Massman]

Everyone who plays in the Pro OC Cup has to be a Pro OC member. You can team up all by yourself "forever alone"-style, or with maximum upto 2 friends.

[rbuass]

So an important question.

Suppose I am benching home... trying for example a good score 3DMark11 with a 3770K + HD7970....

So... in this moment, there are no 3DMark11 competition with that platfform (3770K + HD7970)...

 

Looks for I can not post the score... or .... I can post result

 

That's the most important data base... and I hope we can still checking the World Records and posting....regardless to be inside or out the competitions...

 

One more thing that looks strange.... is that everybody from extreme League still have their points... and ranking.... but the Pro League overclockers all go to Zero points?

 

I don't know if is the best idea.... and remove all work from Pro League Overclockers... So of if this way, I think I will prefer to go to Extreme League.

I really don't want to be forced to go to competitions...

I like competitions... and is a pleasure to be part of the competitions (I did travel to 4 x MOA and 2 x GOOC and liked so much)...but is not a pleasure to fe forced to go to competitions to be in Hwbot.

Also... even Hwbot make a competition... and It will be stages... I am sure more overclockers like me don't want to look for hardware that is not available.

Regardless you can put 775, semprons and celerons... old cards and so on... not all overclockers will look for celerons to be part of some stages...

Worst if the competition includes PCMark (OMG... I really don't like, but is only my personal opinion....let the guys play PCMark05)

In my case, I only will be part in the competitions that allows the hardware I consider like and important to have...

IMHO my celeron time just finished... also old cards I just benched.

I just killed my monster epic HD 5870...and if is this card is needed, I will no more be looking for other...

More sense to me to bench GTX650 ....at least is new technology... and here, we need to consider that people are looking for new things (more easy to buy... more easy to sell)...

 

I think hwbot have to take care.... because to try to grow up and do more competitive don't means to force people to compete to can be in the league.

I hope Hwbot send me to Extreme League... I don't want to be Pro League....and will keep overclocking that I can and is available to me.

 

Best wishes....

Edited January 8, 2013 by rbuass

[rbuass]

Everyone who plays in the Pro OC Cup has to be a Pro OC member. You can team up all by yourself "forever alone"-style, or with maximum upto 2 friends.

 

Looks for will be hard to find a Team...since almost all countries has only 1 member in Pro Team.

[K404]

It's an opportunity for more guys to move to Pro. ESPECIALLY if the old-school hardware you are "scared" of just happens to be their speciality.

 

You are talking like you still have to do all the work yourself bro. If there are mini-teams of three, choose people who bring skills or interests that you don't. It is ALWAYS easier to bench as a team instead of an individual..... if you pick the right people.

 

 

 

 

 

Question for HWB admin..... these mini teams. Can people join and leave freely, as long as the scores stay in the Pro league? (under the pro league team name) (e.g..... if there was a UK team. Could I join for one season, then move back to XOC?)

Edited January 8, 2013 by K404

[Massman]

I don't understand why people STILL think the Pro OC Cup will be with old hardware?! Hasn't it been made clear by now that this new Cup is pretty much the same like the LEAGUE, but in a CUP format?! Focus on high-end, latest, newest hardware and benchmarks ...

 

To be honest, I can only try to explain this with a certain amount of words. More words are not going to make things more clear ...

 

@K404: the idea is that people will be able to move back to the XOC if they want to, but of course only to some degree as we don't want to get the pros to dominate that league (again). Pros that do not wish to compete in the Pro OC Cup can always stay "pro oc", but just not actively compete in a user ranking (points of pro oc members still contribute to team points!).

[K404]

Thanks for the info I was thinking more of XOC people are want a taste of the Pro league and/or have something very useful to contribute to a season. I wasn't thinking of it as a "get-out" clause for people who currently HAVE to be in the Pro league

 

I think we/the community need to see this in action.... give it a try, THEN all will be clear

Edited January 8, 2013 by K404

[Splave]

Sounds good, Im up for something new. Seems like this place is getting pretty stale and we need something new and exciting and this change will bring that I hope.

 

To address Rbuass concerns, it may be in your best interested to find a partner that will make a proper shadow of yourself picking up where your weaknesses are etc. you dont physically need to be in the same area as your teammate.

[knopflerbruce]

I don't understand why people STILL think the Pro OC Cup will be with old hardware?! Hasn't it been made clear by now that this new Cup is pretty much the same like the LEAGUE, but in a CUP format?! Focus on high-end, latest, newest hardware and benchmarks ...

 

To be honest, I can only try to explain this with a certain amount of words. More words are not going to make things more clear ...

 

@K404: the idea is that people will be able to move back to the XOC if they want to, but of course only to some degree as we don't want to get the pros to dominate that league (again). Pros that do not wish to compete in the Pro OC Cup can always stay "pro oc", but just not actively compete in a user ranking (points of pro oc members still contribute to team points!).

 

I'm sure that was mentioned at some point, perhaps implicitly, but I see ( *sigh* ) that you only have to deal with a very limited range of hardware now, as usual. Too bad. The real champion of HWBot will still be the XOL leader I suppose:p

[rbuass]

Maybe I did not understand completely the Rev 5 idea... because limited english maybe bring me some new doubts.

So... I will contribute as always contributed before... with more focus to High End... and also, sometimes, joking with things I think is nice to overclock and old parts.

 

@ Splave - tks mate... you always be a great team member, regardless what team you belong... (good skill, good guy and good point of view).

[SoF]

I am sure thats a really big mistake to end the Pro league...

Regardless I completely agreed new competitions, agreed to encourage enthusiasts to keep overclocking... I do not agreed to change the league that was my inspiration...I believe all the Pro League guys thinking like me....

Best wishes

 

Yes I agree - removing the Pro-League completely would suck big time.

 

If all the Pro league guys think the same as you, why do they not speak?

 

Personally because I am tired of thoose silly new ideas on any new revision.

I mean the Pro-league was just introduced, we all tried to keep up - no matter if you are fighting to stay within' TOP30 or TOP10.

Having his 15 best global scores ranked was just fine for me...

 

... but why do you think replacing the League with a Cup also means that there will be no more high-end hardware? The whole point of the Cup is to have something like the League, only with:

 

- defined timeframe

- small teams instead of users

- smaller selection of hardware and benchmarks

 

Exactly this "replacing" is the main issue - you will erase something you have just introduced with rev 4.

If you add the "Pro-competitions" to the existing league and just put the league in the "backround" it would be all fine.

 

I will not be in any fixed timeframe competitions, neither am I buying things only for a single competition.

The way it is currently planned does not attract me at all.

Edited January 13, 2013 by SoF

[dinos22]

massman i think you should make a full draft season and show an actual example of it so that it can be easier to understand the concept. it will help fine tune the concept I think

 

There are a lot of good ideas there. One thing i know will be a definite deal breaker for TeamAU is a season that lasts the whole year even though it's broken up in to 4 3month stints. It's not a good idea imo. A season should be just that, a season with one big comp per year or two smaller ones (spring/autumn 2 month seasons) or a single 3 month season and then the normal competition/rankings resume. We could use the rankings from Pro Season to add to the ranking of Pro/XOC like major tennis tournaments or golf tournaments.

 

This idea will eventually find its way into local tournaments which will attract smaller prize pools (i.e. HWBOT points) but draw in less experienced crowds todays OC and competition schedule. I know in Australia we have a killer OC community that looks disjointed on HWBOT so we can localise comps like this and make local "competition legs"

Edited January 14, 2013 by dinos22

[phil]

Yes I agree - removing the Pro-League completely would suck big time.

 

 

 

Personally because I am tired of thoose silly new ideas on any new revision.

I mean the Pro-league was just introduced, we all tried to keep up - no matter if you are fighting to stay within' TOP30 or TOP10.

Having his 15 best global scores ranked was just fine for me...

 

 

 

Exactly this "replacing" is the main issue - you will erase something you have just introduced with rev 4.

If you add the "Pro-competitions" to the existing league and just put the league in the "backround" it would be all fine.

 

I will not be in any fixed timeframe competitions, neither am I buying things only for a single competition.

The way it is currently planned does not attract me at all.

 

I think Sof's opinion covers me too.

[Booj]

I agree with SOF and Phil. I will not be competing in a competition but I still like to be ranked, even if I am towards the back in my case.

 

I joined the Pro league because I got gear as a reviewer, and now I work for MSI. Though I have not used ln2 in over a year and rarely even use my cascade these days.

 

I still bench though, so would someone like me be better off going back to the OC league? Or does the fact that I get gear restrict me to the pro?

[Xtreme Addict]

Leave PRO OC League with the rules which we all like and don't complain. Removing it sucks, cause not all like to play with old hardware for HW points, some of us like only highends, the newest hw For older hw we have Team Cup, Country Cup

 

But I agree that there should be something to encourage new overclockers to this business. Some ideas of PRO CUP are good. I vote for ADDING "PRO OC CUP" to the existing PRO OC League and leaving "our PRO OC League" with the rules which are now.

 

I think there should be some kind of voting for existing members, cause in fact in private conversations most of overclockers don't like idea of removing PRO OC League. In fact I think that some people forgot that HWBOT is for overclockers, not overclockers for HWBOT. We are used to being forced to some ideas, limits (for instance what is legal and what isn't in benchmarks). Of course HWBOT is now making rules, is like a ruler of OC now and it's good cause we have common "peace", HWBOT is deal breaker, it's like "goverment" and we have some duties but also privileges (like contests and so on), but in some things there should be democracy.

 

That's why I think there should be a POLL for members of PRO OC League.

 

With options:

 

a) Remove PRO OC League and start PRO OC Cup

b) Leave PRO OC League like in rev. 4.0 and ADD PRO OC Cup (MY VOTE)

c) Leave PRO OC League like in rev 4.0 and don't start PRO OC Cup

[TaPaKaH]

Why not just make competition points count for the Pro League ranks (if they currently don't) and make this cup-thing into a pro-only hwbot competition that is very rewarding with competition points (say, 500 for first that will only last for one 'season')?

[Lucky_n00b]

Why not just make competition points count for the Pro League ranks (if they currently don't) and make this cup-thing into a pro-only hwbot competition that is very rewarding with competition points (say, 500 for first that will only last for one 'season')?

 

Agree with this, this is actually a very good suggestion

 

No Need to remove the current Pro OC League, but make the cup points as an addition to the Total Points, so the Total Points consists of :

 

-Global Points

-WR Points

-Pro OC Cup Points(which only lasted for a season)

 

From here, Hwbot can try to find 'balance' between those 3 variables, like maybe putting a maximum cap of the Global Point (say 800?1000? ) ,

 

So the 'Pro Cup Points' can become more important ,or less important than GL+WR points , depending on how hwbot balances all the variables.

[Massman]

Actually, that's a very bad suggestion.

 

The whole point of getting rid of the league and introducing the cup is to make a very complex and uncomprehensible system more transparent and easier to understand to people outside of the inner circle of overclocking. What you guys are suggesting is just making the whole damn system EVEN MORE difficult to understand by introducing even more types of points into the whole equation. That is NOT what overclocking needs! I'm putting my foot down on that one and there is no negociation. No additional complexity and definitely no multiple systems to maintain coding-wise just to make a compromise that brings us nothing but more chaos.

 

Look, the league is gone and the cup is coming instead. That's a fact. No more points based on all benchmarks and unlimited timeframe for Pro OC. There will still be a ranking in the sidebar (where Pro OC is right now) with the current standings of the Pro OC Cup, like Dino suggested. There's not going to be any "old hardware" in the Pro League either. I don't know who keeps on saying that and why people would still believe that, even though I have written about a thousand times that it's not with old hardware. IT IS NOT WITH OLD HARDWARE!

 

People that want to go back to XOC will be allowed to go back. But, of course, if you work for a vendor it's not possible to compete against people who don't. And if you guys want to do that discussion all over again, browse these forums to find other threads with hundreds of replies.

 

massman i think you should make a full draft season and show an actual example of it so that it can be easier to understand the concept. it will help fine tune the concept I think

 

There are a lot of good ideas there. One thing i know will be a definite deal breaker for TeamAU is a season that lasts the whole year even though it's broken up in to 4 3month stints. It's not a good idea imo. A season should be just that, a season with one big comp per year or two smaller ones (spring/autumn 2 month seasons) or a single 3 month season and then the normal competition/rankings resume. We could use the rankings from Pro Season to add to the ranking of Pro/XOC like major tennis tournaments or golf tournaments.

 

This idea will eventually find its way into local tournaments which will attract smaller prize pools (i.e. HWBOT points) but draw in less experienced crowds todays OC and competition schedule. I know in Australia we have a killer OC community that looks disjointed on HWBOT so we can localise comps like this and make local "competition legs"

 

A good example of a competition format can be found in the opening post.

 

- Ivy Bridge SuperPI 32M

- Trinity 3DMark Vantage

- Sandy Bridge-E 3DMark11

- Piledriver CPU-Z

- Single GPU Heaven DX11

 

The ATP tennis ranking works like this:

 

A player's ATP Ranking is based on the total points he accrued in the following 19 tournaments (18 if he did not qualify for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals):

- The four Grand Slam tournaments

- The eight mandatory ATP World Tour Masters 1000 tournaments,[2]

- The previous Barclays ATP World Tour Finals count until the Monday following the final regular-season ATP event of the following year.[3]

- The best six results from all ATP World Tour 500, ATP World Tour 250, ATP Challenger Tour, Futures Series, Olympics and Davis Cup tournaments played in the calendar year[4]

 

All tournaments/competitions which are per definition time-limited. There's no such thing as a "normal ranking". It's all competition-based.

[phil]

How many people that are right now in the Pro league are willing or can form small teams?How many of them are willing or can buy so many platforms to follow the cups?

Why you think this will make this league more popular?

I am starting to think that AMD wants to get back in the game,and there is no other way to do it.I am not willing to pay an AMD platform with this performance.The reason I am in Pro league is because I like benching with the top hardware.

I am also tired of the changes in the points and leagues systems.

Anyway,those are my thoughts.Do your changes and we might or not follow.

Time will tell.

[dinos22]

hi massman, i did read your full post before making my comments. I was just saying it would probably be good to expand on that example with a timeframe based schedule and examples of points systems and in and out workings of the comp.

 

on the note of tennis or golf tournaments i know how it works but what i think you need to be mindful is to introduce gradual change. It will have to take some time before it reaches a proper tennis ATP style tour comp if that is what you have in mind. You can alienate the community by showing too drastic a change.

[dinos22]

i read most of the replies and it seems this is going ahead and discussion is irrelevant. Am i right? Or are you still looking to make some adjustments to R5?

[knopflerbruce]

How many people that are right now in the Pro league are willing or can form small teams?How many of them are willing or can buy so many platforms to follow the cups?

Why you think this will make this league more popular?

I am starting to think that AMD wants to get back in the game,and there is no other way to do it.I am not willing to pay an AMD platform with this performance.The reason I am in Pro league is because I like benching with the top hardware.

I am also tired of the changes in the points and leagues systems.

Anyway,those are my thoughts.Do your changes and we might or not follow.

Time will tell.

 

If you can afford the top end platforms you can afford 'cheap junk', for example trinity and piledriver. Compare the cost vs a 3960x based setup and you'll see what I mean. Plus, if there are several people within a team there are more people who can share the extra costs. Plus, Bulldozer/Piledriver are both important to be able to compete in the pro league due to CPUZ - so it's like complaining about including Ivy Bridge

 

As for creating a team, most teams got plenty of members - should be no problems recruiting a couple of extra hands.

 

If we lose some of the current pro league members, what if we get otherss who LIKE the system? Hard to tell who 'wins', but the cup is a good idea in quite a few ways.

[Massman]

How many people that are right now in the Pro league are willing or can form small teams?How many of them are willing or can buy so many platforms to follow the cups?

Why you think this will make this league more popular?

I am starting to think that AMD wants to get back in the game,and there is no other way to do it.I am not willing to pay an AMD platform with this performance.The reason I am in Pro league is because I like benching with the top hardware.

I am also tired of the changes in the points and leagues systems.

Anyway,those are my thoughts.Do your changes and we might or not follow.

Time will tell.

 

- Everyone that participate in either the Country Cup or Team Cup (+/ 400) is interested in forming such teams as the Pro OC Cup is the same principle essentially.

 

- I think this will make pro overclocking more interesting because: #1, #26.

 

- Really, now it's AMD that is forcing these changes ...

 

hi massman, i did read your full post before making my comments. I was just saying it would probably be good to expand on that example with a timeframe based schedule and examples of points systems and in and out workings of the comp.

 

on the note of tennis or golf tournaments i know how it works but what i think you need to be mindful is to introduce gradual change. It will have to take some time before it reaches a proper tennis ATP style tour comp if that is what you have in mind. You can alienate the community by showing too drastic a change.

 

i read most of the replies and it seems this is going ahead and discussion is irrelevant. Am i right? Or are you still looking to make some adjustments to R5?

 

You are right, this is definitely going ahead. Of course I'm still interested in hearing opinions on how to make the Cup more interesting .

 

The gradual change can be done through the selection of hardware needed for the first season. If we choose stages that require pretty much the same hardware like people are using right now, the change will be gradual too.

[phil]

- Everyone that participate in either the Country Cup or Team Cup (+/ 400) is interested in forming such teams as the Pro OC Cup is the same principle essentially.

 

- I think this will make pro overclocking more interesting because: #1, #26.

 

- Really, now it's AMD that is forcing these changes ...

 

The people that participate in Country Cup were all from Xtreme OC league that like using old hardware.The people in Pro league don't.

And don't use sarcastic smilie about my thoughts on AMD.You could say that it's not the reason,and I can trust you on that.It's not a rediculus scenario that they might want to be more active in hwbot.We have allready seen that they are making effords to get the attention of people with raw Mhz and memory frequency.I didn't say it because I wanted to accuse you or hwbot.

Competition between companies is a good thing to exist but as many of us in Pro league said,we like to use only the fastest hardware.

I wonder what Vin's Andre's and the others top dogs thoughts are about this.

Haven't heard their oppinions yet.

[Massman]

K|ngp|n posted his comments in the beginning of the thread as well as at his Kingpincooling Facebook page. He's all-in for this. By the way, I'm currently residing in Taipei, so is he. Do you really think we didn't talk about this in-depth for weeks?

 

Andre doesn't care about the Pro League in any shape or form, as he says.