Massman Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Hi all, I'm looking for some ideas for a problem I've been trying to address for a while now. A lot of mainstream performance enthusiasts say that they're not interested in joining hwbot because none of the systems they see at the bot are actual PCs. Not just because of the liquid nitrogen, but also because they are in open test beds and not inside a case. The right analogy here would be to make the comparison between racing prototypes and street-legal production cars. It could be an interesting project to see if we can develop a competitive area for so-called "street legal" production desktop PCs. I've been thinking about this for a while, but I can't find a good starting point for this. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damric Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 You could start by allowing Windows 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraRaptor Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If they ask "Why others use open stands?" wouldn't they ask "Why photoshop is forbidden?" later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildzoid Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Uh my test bench is my 24/7 case. "Street legal" is really hard to define because you can cram phase change and water chillers into regular cases. Going with car analogy though: LN2 - Dragsters Phase change - Formula 1 Water chillers - Rally cars 24/7 Test bench users - Wanna be rally cars Full tower water cooling - super cars Air cooled/AIO PCs in a tower - road cars Also how does a test bench make your system faster? You just have better intake air which can be achieved by simply taking all the panels of a regular case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustytheclown Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 In my opinion the differentiation between street legal and racing pc's cannot be done upon open or closed case. As mentioned above the only think that makes a difference in overclocking (besides skill) is cooling. In such case open case or not does not play an importan role. Also many case manufaturers have introduced open cases for everyday pc's,i do not think they are racing pc's in my books. Enthusiast league is a great thing for these users,although we have seen some extreme conditions enthusiast benching. After all it's all about comparing your oc results with others so entousiast league is the best suited for street legal pc's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildzoid Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Enthusiast league is a great thing for these users,although we have seen some extreme conditions enthusiast benching. Yep people running computers on sub zero ambient water cooling and water chillers are basically the biggest problem for less dedicated people in the enthusiast league. Also competing in benchmarks like Unigine and SuperPi where OS tweaks can make massive differences in scores are also obnoxious for people who want to so see how much better their PC is a gaming and they are going against people with tweaked LODs stripped OSs and overridden settings. Which are obviously not settings people play games with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObscureParadox Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) You could start by allowing Windows 8. What purpose would that serve? To allow a stream of incorrect results through onto the ranking system. Maybe not the best idea. The biggest problem with the whole 24/7 vs bench rig issue with those that won't sign up because of it is that they're the type of people who really aren't going to go far in this anyway if they aren't going to take the time to learn the benchmark and all it's tweaks. They're normally the type of people who want everyone to just set their clocks and hit go. They probably won't stay around here for long anyway. Edited December 3, 2014 by ObscureParadox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZFeSS Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 My first benched PC was in average middletower case. I've benched outdoors with my friends at -20°C ambient. There are no problem to integrate SS in fulltower too, as for waterchillers - they are no different from watercooling gears. All of these systems can count as regular PCs but they doesn't. We already have cooling restrictions for enthusiast league. All that guys with daily PCs are already here. If some of those "mainstream performance enthusiasts" who doesn't want to compete because enthusiast league is too "pro" for them, then it only means that they don't want to overclock at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damric Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 What purpose would that serve? To allow a stream of incorrect results through onto the ranking system. Maybe not the best idea. Are you still going to be using your legacy OS in 2 years, or even 5 years from now while the rest of the world has moved on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I have more than 12 pc configurations but i don't need one for daily use. For this i have my phone/tablet/laptop ,i don't need a pc. The only time when i start the pc is when i make oc and then i have legacy os on 10 hdd,it doesn't affect me at all. You cannot compare the passion for oc-ing with the one for gaming,they are different things for different kind of people. The real thing is,both gamers and overclockers are waisting time doing these activities ,you cannot say one is better than the other ,both are bad but they make you feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikecdm Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you still going to be using your legacy OS in 2 years, or even 5 years from now while the rest of the world has moved on? widows 8.1 is allowed in the benches that actually benefit from using a modern OS. The legacy OS will continue to be used as long as they continue to give the best results in specific benchmarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damric Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Then why do the rules of all the benches except Futuremark outlaw Windows 8/8.1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Maybe the Daily Drivers would be more interesting if it were to be more of a stability test than running a single benchmark is. For example, running 10 of the HWBOT benchmarks back-to-back. Only if it passes all 10, and is thus stable, you can qualify for the Daily Drivers mark. Not sure ... something that can distinguish high-performance stable systems rather than pure benchmark systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Maybe the Daily Drivers would be more interesting if it were to be more of a stability test than running a single benchmark is. For example, running 10 of the HWBOT benchmarks back-to-back. ^^ That would be me, thus my inefficient scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well, we could add Prime95 24h to the database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENiEBEN Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well, we could add Prime95 24h to the database Yeah, me and knut would run it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well, we could add Prime95 24h to the database How do you verify the freqs?I can run stock clocks for 23hrs55mins and raise the clocks for the last 5mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObscureParadox Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Then why do the rules of all the benches except Futuremark outlaw Windows 8/8.1? Because there is a bug in windows 8 and newer windows OS's where if you were to adjust the BCLK of the CPU, the timing goes all out of whack and the results gained aren't the actual results. Hence my previous point. But to answer your question I will absolutely be using legacy OS's if they offer better performance in benchmarks, that's exactly why people still use XP today for benching. How do you verify the freqs?I can run stock clocks for 23hrs55mins and raise the clocks for the last 5mins If you had a similar system to XTU where you got a score at the end of running prime 95 that would eliminate those who only up the results at the end as they wouldn't gain anything from doing it. That's if the score isn't calculated in the exact way as XTU of course Or have a program that just gets crunching number and gives you the total amount of numbers crunched after the 24 hours is up? Kinda like a time based 32M? Just thinking out loud really. Edited December 5, 2014 by ObscureParadox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildzoid Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Doing a stress test benchmark would probably work best. But don't make it 24h but 2 to 5h since that is long enough to catch instabilities and will kill chips that people are operating on inadequate cooling with too much voltage. Though I think it would be cool to have a 24h benchmark category similar to the 24 hours le mans race. Because those would be amazing if you just finished more so if you did it with LN2/DICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleslammer Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Main stream CPUs usually have a desired overclock that gets tossed around the forums, as I remember around 3.6 Kentfield’s, 4.0 Wolfdale’s not up on newer hardware. More was better but the goals where usually attainable with a little extra money spent on a good air cooler and a few extra fans, so efficiency benching might work. Stress test benching, like the idea but variable freq – set duration don’t see any difference than what is already done here. Set freq – variable duration might work, once and on the edge freq was known for specific cooling type but use a benchable ambient freq with a SS and you might need an achievement like, I used enough electricity to power Amazon.com for a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massman Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Or have a program that just gets crunching number and gives you the total amount of numbers crunched after the 24 hours is up? Kinda like a time based 32M? Just thinking out loud really. I really like the idea of a "24h race" where there's an end to the means, like with crunching. No idea what benchmark to use though. Preferably something that tests every aspect of the system (not just CPU) and takes the entire score in to account. Like a 24H version of PCMark or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildzoid Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I really like the idea of a "24h race" where there's an end to the means, like with crunching. No idea what benchmark to use though. Preferably something that tests every aspect of the system (not just CPU) and takes the entire score in to account. Like a 24H version of PCMark or so. Write a script to loop PCMark and add up all the scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObscureParadox Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 PCMark Vantage takes nearly 24 hours to run anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Any ideas? How about stop trying to cater to these sort people, who will likely never be interested in overclocking and improve it for the people who are interested in overclocking for overclockings sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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