Christian Ney Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Here is a step-by-step guide to get items for free using eBay and PayPal thanks to their stupidity, abuse of power, assholeness, mishandling, carelessness and dumb policies. I mean, ever heard that eBay/PayPal will state in favour of the buyer all the time? That is true, 99.9999999999 % of the time, eBay/PayPal will close a case in favour of the buyer no matter what, I mean really, NO MATTER WHAT. Because they don’t give a single f*ck about sellers. Which, when you think about it, is odd since as far as I know, sellers pay fees, not buyers. Anyway, here are 4 methods: Method 1 (eBay): - Order item - Receive item - Open case for “item does not match description†- Wait until you can escalate the case (the seller will most likely contact you several times, just always ignore him) - eBay will “review†the case and close it in the buyer’s favour after around 5 days Note: any appeal from the seller will be rejected. The buyer does not have to return the item and got a full refund. Method 2 (PayPal): - Order item - Wait until the seller marks the item as shipped - Ask/request your post office to block/hold your mail for a couple of weeks - Open a case for “item not received†on PayPal as soon as possible, even right after the item has been marked shipped, it is safe - Escalate the case as soon as possible - PayPal will “take care†of the case and close it in the buyer’s favour after a couple of days/weeks because the tracking will never say it was delivered - The tracking will most likely say “delivered†once the buyer receives the mail that was on hold but since PayPal closed the case before the status update (delivered), they (I quote) “cannot change their decision because the right decision was made†Note: any appeal from the seller will be rejected. The buyer ends up with the item and full refund. Method 3 (PayPal): Depending on where you live, you actually don’t need to ask your post office to block/hold the mail because the postal service of some countries does not update international tracking or change the tracking for a domestic tracking so the international tracking will never update and never say “deliveredâ€. - Order item - Wait until you receive the item - Wait a couple of days and check the tracking that was provided - If the tracking did not update, open case for “item not received†on PayPal - Escalate the case when you can (after 7 days I think) - PayPal will “take care†of the case and close it in the buyer’s favour after a couple of days/weeks because the tracking will never say it was delivered Note: any appeal from the seller will be rejected. The buyer ends up with the item and full refund. Method 4 (PayPal and eBay): Also known as easy mode or cheat mode: - Order item - Wait until you receive the item - Open a case saying the package was empty - Escalate the case when you can (after 7 days I think) - PayPal or eBay will “take care†of the case and close it in the buyer’s favour after a couple of days/weeks because that's what they do. The buyer ends up with the item and full refund. #TrueStory #f*ckPaypal #f*ckeBay Yes, I am pissed big time. I have been using both eBay and PayPal for 7 years and recently the three methods listed above happened to me (I am the seller) and despite all the information I provided, all the time I spent investigating, gathering information, collecting proofs, calling them, writing them, they closed the case every single time in favour of the buyer. Why? Because f*ck the seller, that’s their motto. Note: This is not the first time they mishandle cases, they almost always did. But this time they did it 3 times in the span of a month (3 different buyers, 3 different items and 3 different countries). I lost over 1’000 € and countless hours of fighting. I am now suing them both. And those are just the latest three cases.Had many more before (but I have to admit, they were not as f*cked up). And on top of that, eBay/PayPal will block/freeze my accounts because I complain too much or the claim ratio is too high. So far I had 3 different eBay accounts and 5 different PayPal accounts (also had to open a new bank account every time because you cannot link an already used bank account). Also had many stories as a buyer, especially with old hardware when the board arrives damaged (most of the time failed (leaking, vented) caps, bent pins, scratches on PCB, half memory dimms not working) or memory arrives and it doesn't do specs or is not stable at all because all them sellers don't know how to test hardware properly. And every time I had to return the item and pay for the return costs (waste of time and money). So as both seller and buyer I get f*cked by eBay & PayPal and yet I still use their website as a selling platform because while some of the stuff I can sell on forums, most of it wont sell on forums. Edited March 23, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 It happened for me with digital items,the buyer claimed the account was stolen and got full refund and i got -1200€ balance on paypal...3 years ago and it remained like this untill today . Fxxxck (with uuu ) paypal !!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunset1 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I am afraid to sell on ebay due to this. I have bought items and i always try to be fair. But ebay almost always sides with buyer. As a group of people that use ebay a LOT i think it may be worth doing a poll ? of how many people here have had the same thing happen. Who knows it might help your case. Id be happy to sign or post a statement. mark aka sunset1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiLLius Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I only bought through e-bay. And I was not aware of the big loop hole. But good to know in case I ever want to sell something. It sucks it costs you guys lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) I was on the other side of scenario #1 (I was the buyer), recently ( June 2016). I bought a 7970 Lightning from a well reputed user on Overclock.net forum using Paypal. Card came in & worked fine, but when I opened it up for cleaning, I saw that the core was chipped & so the card was in the danger of death anytime (almost sure when mounting a pot). I talked to the seller, says he didn't know about it, refuses to refund. I opened a case with Paypal, send pics of our PMs, they tell me to return the item & give me a full refund. However, I had to ship the item back to the seller at my own expense & paypal ONLY refunded me the money once the tracking showed that item was delivered back to him and or if they could confirm with him if he got it back. I wasn't happy that I had to pay return shipping $23 on something that wasn't even my fault, but oh well. Just to clarify, I am still on your side & have heard several cases of Paypal/eBay scams. I just posted my personal experience. I dunno how long ago your scenario #1 happened, maybe it was a longtime ago & my case was handled under some new policy revision. IDK. Edited March 22, 2017 by rtsurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmax Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 The professional "scammers" that take advantage of "free stuff on ebay" will actually craft their dispute emails with select key words that only remotely apply to the situation but directly match issues that ebay looks for. That way when the dispute is contested they will side with the buyer based on their response. Most of that is automated to look for these key phrases and the more that come up the easier it is for them to side with the buyer. I'm not going to say that the US is devoid of ebay scammers however the risk is low. However selling from the US to anywhere International is a huge risk, high enough that it isn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyNotSoSlim Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I'm confused, everytime I've sold on eBay, I get paid into PayPal, then that money is instantly transferred to my bank account. Do people keep a PayPal balance or something? Never keep money in there, transfer it out asap. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) @rtsurfer #1 just happened. Wanna know the story? I sold a corsair laptop memory kit on ebay as brand new (got two kits years ago and never used them). Buyer receives the item, opens a case on ebay asking for return saying it was not brand new (apparently the seal was not glued anymore) and one module is defective. I contact him on both the case and PM saying the following: Hello, Sorry to hear the packaging was opened. Honestly I bought them two from the shop and I have never used them so I did not check if it was sealed and I am surprised it was not. I checked the other package I have here and it is also opened so I believe you. Can you please confirm that one module is working and one is defective? If yes, I see two options: One: You can RMA directly at Corsair Two: I send you the other kit I have here and you return this one to me and I will RMA them myself. Please let me know and sorry for the inconvenience. Seal must have failed due to warm summer or something. That was on march 8.No news from the buyer. I contact him again one week later. Still no reply. March 17, I escalate the case saying that I contacted the buyer several times, he never replied and it's been two weeks now. This is the answer I got from ebay: Hello XXXXXXXX, I’m contacting you about the return request your buyer has opened for the item: “Corsair Vengeance Laptop 2x4GB DDR3-1866 PC3-15000 CL10 CMSX8GX3M2A1866C10†nº: 192113685040, purchased by lvispo on 1 of March. As the item doesn’t match the listing description, you’ll need to refund them the full cost of their item, and pay for the return shipping. We’ve placed the return on hold for 5 days to allow you to arrange the return shipping with your buyer. If you don’t provide a resolution to the buyer or facilitate the return of the item by 22 of March, we’ll close the return in the buyer’s favour and issue them with a refund, even if they haven’t returned the item. There are a few ways you can facilitate the item’s return: • If you have a preferred courier, you may wish to send your own return shipping label to the buyer • Find out the return shipping amount by using shipping calculators from the buyer's local carrier website (e.g. Royal Mail for UK), then issue the buyer with a payment through the “send money†option in PayPal. • Contact the buyer through the return and see if they’re willing to keep the item and accept a partial refund for the damage/missing parts. • Issue a full refund without needing the item to be returned – doing this will automatically close the return immediately. It’s important to let the buyer know the option you chose. Also, please let us know by replying to this email or leaving a note in the Resolution Centre. If you send your buyer funds to cover the cost of return shipping, we'll also need to see a screenshot of the PayPal transfer. You can send this through our document uploader. Here's how: 1. Save a screenshot of the relevant transaction to your computer. 2. Go to “My eBay†and sign in using your eBay user ID and password. 3. Select the Document Type 'General information' from the drop-down list. 4. Upload the screenshot using ‘Add File’ and add the Case ID in the Comments field. 5. Review the eBay privacy policy and check the box that you agree. 6. Select ’Send’ and wait for confirmation to appear that your documents have been submitted for review. - Please note it may take up to 3 business days to review your information. If you’ve tried to resolve the complaint with the buyer but they’re unresponsive, please let us know. You can find out more about return shipping costs in the Seller Centre: http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/private/returns I trust I've explained our policy clearly and I wish you the best on eBay in future. Javier C. - Costumer support To which I replied: (usually I reply in a nice way, but they crossed the line long ago so I am just straight now) Are you f*cking kidding me? That is a f*cking joke.Did I just read what I just read? I really hope this was some kind of automatic reply email and you did not really mean it. I have contacted the buyer two times already to solve the issue. It’s been ten days now and I haven’t received a single reply. So yeah, he is not responsive and I am even the one who escalated the issue because he was not responsive. So before you waste my time again, read the case. Really pissed about ebay’s “customer serviceâ€. Can’t even call it customer service. On another note: Funny you say that I have to pay the shipping costs for the return or even arrange it. Because when I buy something and it does not match the item description, I have to pay for the return myself. The seller NEVER had to pay for the return nor arrange it. Is this a selective policy? It only applies to some people and not others? They fully refunded him this morning. Conclusion: I lost the item + shipping cost + the money + fees (yes, they did not refund the fees lol) + time. And of course the buyer gets the money + the item. Edited March 23, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKillerGR Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 kinda similar scenario with my sr-2/2x 5650x setup. Was sold to a UK guy and shipped with full wb for mobo installed. He swapped it with the original one and forgot to use one pad. He somehow shorted cpu vrms because of that and mobo died. Had to refund 250eu and let him keep the items even tho I was trying to explain to ebay that buyer interfered with the item and item was broken by him. Ofc it was like talking to a wall; whole messages were being ignored... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Beier Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 The aussie is right! Get the money to your bank account ASAP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Might as well post the two others: #3 (happened many times but this particular example is "gold") Was a 1200W power supply. Buyer opened case on paypal saying he never got the item. Last tracking status was showing that it arrived in Albania and nothing after that. I contacted the french postal service and they said that unfortunately for some countries like Albania, there is no further tracking updates once the item is arrived in the destination country because they do not have any agreement with the country's postal service or whatever. After my own investigation, turned out the item was blocked at the customs and they contacted the buyer several times without success. I showed this to PayPal and they ruled in my favour (That is actually the only time I won, ever). But wait, that's too beautiful to be true. The buyer then opened a case on ebay this time. I told ebay the same, adding that he already opened a case on PayPal and lost. ebay f*cking ruled in his favour, like, WTF? After countless emails and phone calls, ebay finally admitted in one email that they had made a mistake and that they were going to refund me. They never did and on top of that banned/blocked my ebay account. Needless to say that despite countless emails and phone calls, they never refunded nor unblocked my account. (they also managed to get my PayPal account blocked (back then it was still the same company I think)). Note: Some time later, french postal service emailed me that the package was successfully delivered (the buyer finally made contact with the customs). Aftermath: I lost the item + shipping cost + the money + time + both ebay/paypal accounts. And of course the buyer gets the money + the item. Edited March 22, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) #2 : (note: item was a i7-6950X) - Transaction was made on 13.12.16. - Item was shipped on 13.12.16 at 17:30. - Postal service said the delivery time was going to be 10 business days from the 14. - If we count 10 business days from the 14, that is the 28.12.16. - Buyer opened the case on 21.12.16, which is 7 days before the estimated delivery date. - I learned that his local postal office was closed until January 9. In other words, he cannot receive anything before January 10. - PayPal closed the case in his favour on January 11. In other words, one day after the buyer's local post office reopened. - I made an appeal, PayPal gave me 3 days to provide a proof of delivery from the french postal service. (in these 3 days, there was Saturday and Sunday, so in other words, I had less than 24 hours to provide the document (and even if I had 3 days, it is not possible to get a document nor a reply from the french postal service in less than weeks (they literally tell you that they reply within 90 days))). - The appeal was turned down on January 17 - According to the information I later got from the postal service, the package was delivered on January 16. - I made a new appeal which was accepted on January 20 but they did not refund because and I quote: "even if the appeal was accepted, the decision to refund the buyer was right and it is not possible to go back." To this date, I have not been refunded. I also would like to add the following: - PayPal did not reply to most of the messages/emails I sent about the case. (they only replied to maybe 4 / 25) - A PayPal managed was supposed to call me back 9 times, he only called me back twice. (yeah for a week I was calling like 2 times a day). - PayPal refunded the buyer when it was agreed that no refund was possible since the buyer did not want the item to be insured (because he did not want to pay the added shipping costs nor the customs fees). (I usually ship such items with insurance up to 1'000 €, but you cannot insure a shipment up to 1'000 € and only declare 30 € for customs. So I told him I was willing to ship it according/following his conditions but if it is lost, damaged or stolen, no refund was possible and he agreed. As you can see, PayPal mishandled the whole case everywhere, from start to end. Add to this that during the time the case was open they blocked/froze my account so it was not possible for me to buy/sell during more than one month. And I even had to fight after the case was closed to get the account restored. Aftermath: I lost the item + shipping cost + ~1'000 € + really a lot of time + one month of sales And of course the buyer gets the money + the item. Edited March 22, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Wow these are some terrible instances. They seem to find a way to Fueck you everytime. I hope you get some justice man. Also, Paypal doesn't care about whatever you decided with the buyer (no returns. etc). They will always follow their own policy. So never give a no return discount or something (less declared value) to anyone. As a safeguard to dealing with unknown people, I always add signature confirmation to my packages. I've had a person try to rip me off by saying that USPS left the package outside & when he got home, it wasn't there. So I use signature confirmation now. Also make sure that if you are paying for a signature confirmation, then you use a carrier that actually does the confirmation. Fedex & USPS in the USA seem to follow the signature thing properly. UPS on the other hand. I've had a package overnighted to me with signature confirmation, because the last one was stolen because UPS just left it outside. Anyways, the company paid approximately $70 in overnight shipping/signature confirmation to UPS (plus their cost of having to replace the item i bought) & of course when the package came, the guy rings the bell, leaves the package outside & by the time I get to the door, he's in his truck, at the end of the street. That's what $70 worth of shipping gets you from UPS in America or atleast near my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Problem is no one is going to pay expensive shipping costs (in some cases, it costs as much if not more than the actual item). So you end up not selling or selling at lower price because shipping is too high. Not to mention that signature or not, that will not help with the three cases I posted There is nothing you can do against eBay/PayPal's abuse of power, assholeness (is this even a word? ho well, now it is) and mishandling. Edited March 22, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knopflerbruce Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I've been scammed for $500 items twice. From my experience your protection as a buyer isn't worth jack shit. Seller has shitty feedback with similar complaints about empty boxes arriving? Noooo, must be the guy with 1500 feedback and no negatives who is the bad guy... #ebaylogic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Or you could just sell them in here,on forums. I know ebay comes in handy,i heard many times the phrase "let me check the ebay price for the item and i will tell you how much it cost" ),which makes me laugh because cases like yours happen a lot and also you don't get the whole amount on ebay,there are a lot of fees. Better make a good discount and give them to a nice overclocker . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GeorgeStorm Posted March 23, 2017 Members Share Posted March 23, 2017 I try to stay away from ebay for reasons like this, I've heard horror stories from both buyers and sellers, far prefer forums with people I know/trust more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbonenet Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Method 4 added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators websmile Posted March 23, 2017 Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2017 Checked your ebay listings, I think I am in for some free goodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Strunkenbold Posted March 23, 2017 Crew Share Posted March 23, 2017 Really sad, thats why I never sold things on ebay. Some people just dont know how to handle those fragile stuff. They make damage to those parts and claim it was dead before. I made good experience in the forums. Good luck getting your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaPaKaH Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Funny, last year I had lots of cases where I was the buyer, got no/broken items and could not get my money back via eBay/PayPal irrespective of how much proof I provided or how polite I was with the communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.nfraR.ed Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 My experience as a buyer is good overall, but I haven't sold anything on ebay. Tried once, the item didn't sell and I gave up. I've had about 3 cases on ebay: - One was for a VGA that never arrived, there was no real picture of it, no shipping confirmation, tracking or any response from the seller after the transaction. Ebay judget in my favor and it was the right thing. - Second one was a nice DFI LanParty Ultra-B, full retail packaging, etc. The price was high, but this is kind of a collector's item. Seller said board is like new, works fine. Not sure if he neglected working condition or actually tried to sell me a non-working board. It took him a looot of time to ship it after sending many messages. He was always saying "tomorrow". I had to cancel the deal after seeing this, but I wanted that board. He eventually shipped it and it arrived, but was not working - all capacitors were K.O. Fortunately after replacing them the board worked. I'm usually willing to cooperate, but this time opened a case and won. He was pissed. - Third time was a cheap s.939 CPU that got lost somehow during shipping, but I could see the seller is a honest guy, not trying to fool me. He issued a full refund, which I didn't request, so I sent him some money for compensation, because it was not his fault, nor mine. We both shared the loss this way. Generally I try to resolve issues directly with the buyer. However your experience is awful and after reading this I would never try to sell something on ebay again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Ney Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) And those are just the latest three cases. Had many more before (but I have to admit, they were not as f*cked up). And on top of that, eBay/PayPal will block/freeze my accounts because I complain too much or the claim ratio is too high. So far I had 3 different eBay accounts and 5 different PayPal accounts (also had to open a new bank account every time because you cannot link an already used bank account). Also had many stories as a buyer, especially with old hardware when the board arrives damaged (most of the time failed (leaking, vented) caps, bent pins, scratches on PCB, half memory dimms not working) or memory arrives and it doesn't do specs or is not stable at all because all them sellers don't know how to test hardware properly. And every time I had to return the item and pay for the return costs (waste of time and money). So as both seller and buyer I get f*cked by eBay & PayPal and yet I still use their website as a selling platform because while some of the stuff I can sell on forums, most of it wont sell on forums. Edited March 23, 2017 by Christian Ney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 How you managed to make 5 paypal accounts,i made for me and my wife and they blocked both accounts ). How you bypass the money limit when they ask for your id and to upload documents ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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