Is overclocking DEAD or dying?

[chew*]

1 hour ago, avalanche said:

That's a tough one man. Gamer shows interest, you give him his good OC settings & he or she is gone. 

A one stop shop for a quick fix.

There is always that possibility but imagine 25%(15k) of that 60K take an interest and even if only 10% (1500) of that 25% become even more interested and stick around well that sounds pretty damn good considering numbers are what 2200 ish currently?

Sorry for all the math and hypothetical crap but ive worked with marketing guys so long...…...bear with me.

Edited December 5, 2019 by chew*

[Guest]

Sure sounds good. Our Warp9 team will take the first keen talented 10x overclockers. Mr Scott's approval of course. 

When do we start?

[chew*]

Like I said theres far more brokeazz gamers then guys with 9900K/2080TI so we target them.

Step 1 would be designing a system with a reliable known to OC good @ ambients mobo and cpu that don't break the bank and vga that has good oc potential don't break the bank. Basically a super budget highly ocable system. I know they exist. It would need to be something that your sure you could get repeatable results out of. its most likely a lot of hardware many have lying around doing nothing now.

step 2 would be tuning it and sharing the settings but no profiles as you don't want to make it so damn easy that they just chew and screw. You want them to at least have to learn how to navigate around a bios and have some hands on.

step 3 proving its more than playable in games

step 4 pimp/market the F out of it, use the hardware sites and every tool in the industries arsenal to get the word out, forums etc etc

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by chew*

[mickulty]

25% interested in OC and 10% of those interested in competitive OC are both very ambitious IMO.  You also have a third percentage for people who can do competitive OC - the vast majority of these gamers are kids, they might only have use of a small bedroom with no space for a separate bench system, even if they wanted one and could afford the hardware.

To be honest though, competitive OC is a hobby not a business for 99.9%.  Why invest time and effort into trying to grow it like it's a business?  We shouldn't be worrying about how to market the hobby, we should be doing the hobby.  I'm sure an army of motivated volunteers could grow hwbot to 2x where it is currently, but what would the benefit of that be?  Would it be more fun for anyone?  Would these new people build it up, or drain it?  I think the best thing is what guys including buildzoid, keeph8n and mythical tech do where they share what they've done and the fun they've had with it on various platforms, but leave it to the people watching to decide if they want to do the same.  If someone gets into it because they want to that's much better than getting into it because they were told to by someone trying to grow what doesn't need to grow.

[chew*]

I see your point and I agree however theres one small factor missing. hwbot is technically a business. This site costs money as does any other ocing site. The less traffic it has the less  sponsors want to pay for advertisements and or just pull out completely and advertise elsewhere.

Just look at the state XS is in. It's on life support.

It's not the only site https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/xbitlabs-shut-down.2497900/ and then go check the forums that they "saved" latest posts 2018....

your getting a glimpse at the future so I say do something preemptively

Edited December 5, 2019 by chew*

[speed.fastest]

12 hours ago, chew* said:

I think some parties have misunderstood things so let me clear some stuff up.

I have nothing against hwbot or overclocking. For personal reasons I long ago changed my actual hwbot account info to something I would not remember while maintaining my forum account so that I could no longer sub scores. I also went into hibernation or whatever you want to call it.

I still enjoy ocing and still do it on occasion when I find something that interests me (llano 3d or ryzen 32m pi etc etc ) or is challenging but I post it on forums and it ends there. If you think I sold my guns ( ln2 pots and phase change) think again. I still got my guns

I still work on AMD hardware and with AMD but its catered more towards the average joe/avg gamer crowd. Currently its 5700/5700xt/3900x/3700x/3800x/2700x/ a few mainstream mobos and a couple sets of bdie.

The purpose of mentioning gamers is simply its an untapped resource. Like I told someone in pm for every gamer with a 9900K 2080TI there are 20 broke mofos on crappy hardware.

You figure a way to tap into those gamers and you might see a massive influx of new ocers. Be surprised how many of them don't OC or know how.

I still have the guns too, and treat oc as hobby, thats why im not too active. Only doing what i can and what i love to. As far as i know we can't stop doing oc, if i stop i will come back no matter what. Im ocing before even joining forum on internet.

[Guest]

Bring out the guns pal  No point having them holstered

[Kona64]

hmmm i haven't caught up to ALL the posts in the thread so far, but i think an important factor is that processors now adays have very little headroom for OCing compared how things were 5+ years ago. When 775 and 1366 and 1156 were around, overclocking was at everyone's fingertips and most cpu's could do 500mhz+ over stock on just some regular air cooling so there was a LOT of tangible benefit and everyone could indulge. Now adays many chips require fancy cooling just to do all-core boost, and even with top-of-the-line custom loop it's difficult to go over 200-300mhz above maximum boost for regular use, and that's a LOT of spending for a meagre 200mhz especially since to go that far you need to spend on a fancy unlocked cpu and ZXXX mobo. 
I guess like 2010 overclocking was something you could just decide to do and be able to cause pretty much any hardware could OC and benefits were very tangible, these days its a lot of money and you're trying to squeeze a few drops out of a hella dry lemon...
-opinion of someone who has both new and old mobos and regularly takes things subzero for fun

[dumo]

Just clock it, bench and have fun! 

[marco.is.not.80]

I keep hearing people say there is very little overclocking headroom in modern CPUs. I honestly can't figure out where this mentality is coming from. I'm running a 9900K at 5.1 ghz all cores on my daily driver. That's a whopping 41% increase from stock. Most people are doing at least 5 ghz on 9900k - still close to 40%. How is that considered "very little headroom?"

I think people are using the turbo multiplier as their gauge for measuring... I don't believe this is an accurate way to do it.

Edited December 7, 2019 by marco.is.not.80

[ozzie]

thats easy to decifer marco, they have little headroom to understand let alone know how to do it

[Mythical tech]

54 minutes ago, marco.is.not.80 said:

I keep hearing people say there is very little overclocking headroom in modern CPUs. I honestly can't figure out where this mentality is coming from. I'm running a 9900K at 5.1 ghz all cores on my daily driver. That's a whopping 41% increase from stock. Most people are doing at least 5 ghz on 9900k - still close to 40%. How is that considered "very little headroom?"

I think people are using the turbo multiplier as their gauge for measuring... I don't believe this is an accurate way to do it.

I think in the coming years the gap will shrink, for amd it already has. My 1920x system is overclocked to 4ghz but that is as far as it will go on air without putting the system outside in the winter. 15% oc is not nothing and I will certainly take it over nothing but my main system running a 2500k at 5ghz is a lot more of an improvement over stock. As long as I can overclock something I will even for just 1% and I think most of the people here are the same way but we are just a small part of the computer market and adaptive tools like Nvidias boost technology allow for the highest number of people to achieve the highest level of performance. The vast majority of people just want to plug in a system and have it run at its fastest potential without any tinkering but it doesn't mean overclocking is dying. Having something pushed close to the limit out of the box just means we have to find a way to raise that limit, for a vega card that could mean power play tables or a shunt mod for Nvidia cards. Lastly even if cpu clock speed is almost at its ambient limit doesn't mean that the system is close to its limit. Tuning ram has a huge impact on lots of applications and workloads especially on ryzen where the clock speeds are almost at the limit of air cooling out of the box. As long as there are settings to change to make a system faster we will change them. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, marco.is.not.80 said:

I think people are using the turbo multiplier as their gauge for measuring... I don't believe this is an accurate way to do it.

Agreed measure by base. Decent 9900K 50% OC is what 5.4Ghz ...

[havli]

Nonsense - 9900k never runs at base clock. Default turbo is 4.8 GHz... so OC to 5.1 GHz = +6.25%. This is how it works.

[marco.is.not.80]

15 minutes ago, havli said:

Nonsense - 9900k never runs at base clock. Default turbo is 4.8 GHz... so OC to 5.1 GHz = +6.25%. This is how it works.

If that was actually true then Intel would advertise the 9900k with a base clock of 4.8. It doesn't. Furthermore, a turbo multiplier as used by the majority of the world outside of overclocking is a temporary boost in speed and not uniform across all cores. In fact, out the box 4.8 is only guaranteed by Intel on 4 of the cores with the other cores either clocking down or up. So what are you talking about?

Edited December 7, 2019 by marco.is.not.80

[Guest]

https://hwbot.org/submission/4010098_protoaus_cinebench___r15_core_i9_9900k_2378_cb

See links 50% fella's 

[havli]

2 hours ago, marco.is.not.80 said:

If that was actually true then Intel would advertise the 9900k with a base clock of 4.8. It doesn't. Furthermore, a turbo multiplier as used by the majority of the world outside of overclocking is a temporary boost in speed and not uniform across all cores. In fact, out the box 4.8 is only guaranteed by Intel on 4 of the cores with the other cores either clocking down or up. So what are you talking about?

I don't care what Intel advertise. The important part how the CPU actually runs. And unless your heatsink fall off or something... it will never run at base clock. See here https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900k/17.html

Always at 4.4 GHz or more. And depending on the board and bios settings, it might even run 4.8 all-core (with TDP of 200W).

Yeah, 50% OC is possible on 9900k - but only with LN2 at >7 GHz. ?

Edited December 7, 2019 by havli

[mickulty]

Even if a future processor gets really good at extracting every last drop of performance, and even if we ignore running at unstable settings or with unsafe voltage, you can still work on performance by doing stuff with cooling.

Also, let's not forget memory tuning.  The community of casual AMD users has mostly decided that processor OC for Ryzen 2nd and 3rd gen starts and ends with PBO, but that's led to more people scratching their tuning itch with obsessive memory tweaking.  Mostly I've seen this expressed by posting aida64 screenshots on discord and reddit, and IMO a feeling seems to have developed that there's something magic about sub-60ns memory latency in aida64 with a Ryzen processor.

Maybe it would be good to have more memory benchmarks on HWBOT ?

[chew*]

5 hours ago, marco.is.not.80 said:

I keep hearing people say there is very little overclocking headroom in modern CPUs. I honestly can't figure out where this mentality is coming from. I'm running a 9900K at 5.1 ghz all cores on my daily driver. That's a whopping 41% increase from stock. Most people are doing at least 5 ghz on 9900k - still close to 40%. How is that considered "very little headroom?"

I think people are using the turbo multiplier as their gauge for measuring... I don't believe this is an accurate way to do it.

chip does a sustained 4.8turbo all core with reasonable temps. asrock z490

average chip does 5.0 all core with NH-d15 or drp4 and 100c+ in real stability tests.

Edited December 7, 2019 by chew*

[chew*]

1 hour ago, mickulty said:

"Even if a future processor gets really good at extracting every last drop of performance, and even if we ignore running at unstable settings or with unsafe voltage, you can still work on performance by doing stuff with cooling."

a 3900x with a NH-d15 will run 3.8-4.2 with temps peaking about 80c letting AMD do there thing. If you pay attention to voltages top end scale is 1.35v which has been stated safe by amd. If you set a manual OC @ 4.2 and voltage 1.35 you will hit 95c in about 5 mins thermal throttle and spit out an error in like 4k 8k 12k iterations.

your already in an extra $100 in cooling with NH-d15 how much do you really want to spend just to get minimal gains. Money is spent better elsewhere on a higher end sku or a step up vga or higher rated memory or a faster ssd, things that will give you a noticeable gain in performance.

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by chew*

[mickulty]

@chew* overclocking as a hobby is already not really cost effective, my point is that if people are genuine enthusiasts who wanna compete to extract the most performance then they still can.

[chew*]

36 minutes ago, mickulty said:

@chew* overclocking as a hobby is already not really cost effective, my point is that if people are genuine enthusiasts who wanna compete to extract the most performance then they still can.

I agree and I can never leave something untouched. If I can't find headroom in core clocks it onto uncore or nb and memory ocing however in its current state core clocking in the high end segment for the ambient casual 24/7 guys is rather demotivational in its current state.

I'm not really complaining as AMD and Intel is doing what I and many ocers used to do as far back as 3dmark 01 and they are doing it better. We used to boost clocks/voltage per game test. As benches evolved and you could not "pause" between tests so to speak we started using OC on the fly buttons, maybe drop cpu speed through a cpu test bump back up in game tests. Hell I recall doing some MOA comp where I was benching vantage on an IGP and I used + - OC button to run varied clocks through each test.

Manufacturers took it a step further with variable on the fly voltages and clocks so in a sense put the ambient ocers out of a "job" so to speak.

Ambient > sub zero as far as the populus went, no clue where it stands now but I imagine that ratio has gone down with the way things are currently compared to say 10 years ago.

Edited December 7, 2019 by chew*

[TerraRaptor]

Sub zero (i.e. ss) is getting more and more expensive with latest gens of hardware - both my ss won't stand overclocked cpus (latest I tried was 5820K, which was at positives @5ghz full load) as they are tuned for 200-250W. I can just imagine how expensive a proper ss may be. And DI/LN2 are totally impractical (I can imagine ultimate gaming rig cooled by ss or chiller - but not cooled by ln2) and require expensive entry ticket (pots, dewar, thermometer).

[marco.is.not.80]

17 hours ago, chew* said:

chip does a sustained 4.8turbo all core with reasonable temps. asrock z490

average chip does 5.0 all core with NH-d15 or drp4 and 100c+ in real stability tests.

All true. Which simply says that without even trying most people see a big gain from what is advertised. The only thing I'd say to what you wrote above is that 5.0 on all cores doesn't include leaving the AVX speed the same and probably means it set at -3 or lower - agreed?

19 hours ago, havli said:

I don't care what Intel advertise.

I mean, if we can't even agree on where to start it becomes a pointless conversation. I'm not here to convince but to converse.

Edited December 8, 2019 by marco.is.not.80

[5erveD]

Just enjoy the hobby and bench! Tell about it to people who are interested. But don't overdue. If they want it they will go for it eventually.