Xtreme Addict Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Okay, so in fact THX to this OC Cup, Futuremark Hall of Fame will be again the most important No more Single GPU benching, 4-Way, QuadCF FTW! Don't get me wrong, I like idea of CUP but there is also normal ranking needed, for instance someone gets the best CPU and VGA from PRO OC League (like always) and want's to crash all records in single gpu and 2d benchmarks and during the CUP it will be pointless, no points and so on, only satisfaction. Of course - it's the most important, but the problem is the cost and time. Once people got "points" they will also want and need to get them in future. It means that there will be worse results, cause no one will care about rankings outside CUP stages and will go to Futuremark for 3D and that's all (like me, I will focus only on Futuremark Hall of Fame with 4-way/Quad CF with small exceptions for older 3DMarks). Of course I will try to compete in CUP if I will find someone to do a team and some vendor's help... Edited January 15, 2013 by Xtreme Addict Quote
Xtreme Addict Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 The people that participate in Country Cup were all from Xtreme OC league that like using old hardware.The people in Pro league don't. I guess I was the only exception from PRO OC League taking part in the Country Cup :D Quote
phil Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I guess I was the only exception from PRO OC League taking part in the Country Cup :D So was I,but you get what I mean Anyway,let's get going and see what happens. Quote
Massman Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 Pro OC members that participated in the Country Cup: - Massman - yoko - stummerwinter - Xtreme Addict - phil - Splave.ROM - Lucky_n00b - Amin_CaraGT2 - Crazzzy85 Of course no one is obliged to participate in any OC Cup and of course everyone can focus for the full 100% on the Hall of Fame of any benchmark. I'm looking forward to seeing new faces trying out the high-end OC competitions . Quote
SoF Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) how you will handle the switch, creating teams and so? as I currently see only 25% of the currently considered people directly joining the new way, how you handle all the others? put them back into XOC, deleting their ES scores or let them "unranked" until proper way of new challenge is approved for new guys? btw: Talked to Crazzzy85 during the week-end who also is considering going back to XOC as it seems. had a nice chat, was a good "competition" with him in the "old pro league" without any timeframe... Edited January 15, 2013 by SoF Quote
Splave Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I like dinos idea, can we get a hwbot.org/rev5 sneak peak site to get more of a feel for it. Walls of text loose the point and some people just skip them all together (or if your dumb like me) Quote
Booj Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I would also like to see a preview. So I can see what happens to a current pro league local vendor rep or overclocking reviewer under the new system.. (one who chooses not to compete in the Pro cup and cannot go back to OC league) We go into limbo if I interpret correctly.. There are a lot of words in this thread. So, users are still allowed to indicate whether they are pro oc or xoc. If a user selects 'pro oc', it gives him the right to start a competition team and competite in the Pro OC Cup. If he doesn't want to compete, he will just not be in a ranking, but of course his submissions will still show up in the database. Just not part of a league. For someone who is now in Pro OC, but wants to go back to the XOC, that's also possible. [/Quote] To be honest, I am not really fussed, but as a hwbot user of many years, It will be strange not to be part of any league. I would like to see the normal pro league maintained somehow. Quote
Bobnova Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Are the requirements for pro league changing at all, or will it still be anybody getting current gen ES bits plus anybody getting direct support from vendors? The tournaments / tennis style of ranking is an interesting concept, I think it has promise. Of course, I'm not in the pro league. Quote
Massman Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 Trying to answer all the posts at once. 1) The actual transition (or "switch") is not clear yet as it will depend on how the actual implementation of the registration process will be. Roughly speaking, there will be a page for Pro OC users to choose to either register a Pro OC Cup team(*) or join an existing one during the registration period. Pro OC users that do not join a team will just have an inactive user ranking, but of course all their scores still get ranked/points/cups and still contribute to the team ranking. Users that do no longer want to participate in the Pro can go back to XOC, provided they don't violate the ES rules and they are not working for a vendor (for very obvious reasons). (*): we are currently considering linking Pro OC Cup competition teams to actual OC teams. Ie: I could get a Madshrimps Pro OC Cup team representing the Madshrimps overclocking team. Considering means still looking into the implications of that idea. 2) There will be a demo site up and running. The Pro OC Cup feature is currently under development, which means even I don't know what it will look like exactly. I'll try to put the whole concept into a couple of images (memes!) over the weeking to clarify the idea. 3) As for keeping the old Pro League alive: not a good idea. The more leagues and rankings there are, the less transparent overclocking is to the outer circle. Simplicity is the key here. And, yes, I know you guys will mock me using the word simplicity knowing how R4 was much more complex, but it's not because simplicity does not overrule everything. Simplicity is part of the equation; transparency, fairness, complexity, etc are also important. 4) The "rules" for being forced to Pro OC have never been written down because we don't really want to force people who just bench occassionaly for fun to be forced into that league. Only "ES" has been a restriction, but again only if the score was generating points ánd if the ES was current gen. Getting direct support was never a reason to move anyone; ie. reviewers were not forced to go Pro OC. Perhaps we could specific the requirements to move to Pro OC more clearly with this new revision. Let's discuss this outside of this thread maybe? btw: Talked to Crazzzy85 during the week-end who also is considering going back to XOC as it seems. had a nice chat, was a good "competition" with him in the "old pro league" without any timeframe... The question is: who else enjoyed the competition between you two? In light of having the Pro OC to promote the hobby overclocking, did it really help? The big problem with the Pro OC League is that no one outside the inner circle of overclocking gives a damn about it. And ultimately the "new overclockers" will have to come from the outer circle ... Quote
K404 Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) So.....Pro League members can either: participate in a competition team, with the public exposure and/or contribute to their team on the quiet Because.... if they fly alone, they can get all the scores + points they want, but no-one will "notice" them unless they look at the benchmark leaderboard? ? If a Pro League member goes to their profile, will anything be different apart from their league ranking? They will still see their Global + WR + competition points? (and hardware points, but those don't count anyway) Edited January 16, 2013 by K404 Quote
rbuass Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I don't want to be forced to compete... I want to be free to choose if I will join... or if I will not join each competition. I don't want to loose my points, my scores and see all my effort to be losed... "because I followed the Rev.4 and worked hard to keep in good ranking". I don't have fully support, and need to afford my own expensive hardware, LN2 and so on (Corsair, only gave me 2 x AX1200i, some SSDs, and the RAM kits and its not the most important to the benchmarks)... so, please, don't compare legends like Kingpin and Andre opinion, because they really will be always considered legends and maybe they don't need to show nothing for nobody. I agree to have competitions... but don't agree to change Pro League. I want to choose what hardware I want to buy... and if I don't want to buy Piledriver because I don't consider CPUZ a benchmark... and I don't like to bench Spi32 M moving the mouse to know if is alive... I don't agree limitations is score, because I always will bench to the max scores is possible. I can made a Team and join Pro competitions... but it don't mean to be forced. And last... I think Hwbot and some overclockers stop to consider the hardware vendors as enemy... that feed some Pro Overclockers and give full support... because they are always working to be more easy ... today you can see MB, RAM, CPU, VGA destined to Overclockers.... Is not cause I have no support that I will complain that Andre can have 200 CPUs and 200 VGAs and keep in the top... The only thing I can do is to work hard with the hardware I have... and I will always do it... in or out HWBOT... Last... I think each new revision... instead we grow up... we are losing people. The point to me is to make more simple to enthusiasts and new overclockers... this is the way... so... each overclocker will decide if they will bench only for fun... go to LN2, or even to find inspiration with the Pros to try to go there. That's my opinion.... Best wishes for all Quote
Booj Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 This is probably not the place for a general blabla, but why not.. The only people that are going to with in a Pro OC cup are KP/Tin, Andre/Asus and Russia, maybe Hicookie/GB team. Along with their obvious skill, a significant reason is they get the best and most CPUs and hardware. There are so many guys who bust their asses that cannot get close to this no matter how good they are.. This is OK in the normal R4 pro league, and accepted, yet under this new comp, they will be forced to spend a dewar load of money to compete, or else effectively GTFO or go back to the OC league (that no one cares about???? really?) All for the purpose of making OC and HWbot more compelling to the public. I would not want to spend thousand$ on 4x 7970 or AMD FX with LHe because I am forced to to come 18th or 27th at best. I would rather bench a decent 3770K, single GPU and be happy with that, even in my local forums, or towards the back of the current pro league in my case. Maybe once the public is more aware of how the top echelon of OC'ing works behind the scenes, they will not be so enthusiastic. (CPU Mafia lmfao I know this guy at Intel Oregon...) I see overclocking as a hobby and a bit of fun like in years gone past.. I don't think the public identifies with a 1 in 1000 CPU on ln2. Many people in forums could not care less about ln2, many care only about 24/7 and a heap run i7 920 with 5850 and see no reason at all to use the latest and greatest. Overclocking cannot be compared to gaming. Gamers can see action live and can follow blow by blow like most sports (Headshot! you sunk the battleship asshole!). Gamers follow pro gaming because they identify with it, they play the same games and identify with the culture. I understand what the bot is trying to do, but I need some beer goggles to see how professional overclocking can be consistently compelling to the public long term. Live event I see differently. Anyway, i'm off to get some food. Opinions are like you know what, i don't have the passion or commitment to OC I once did, these are just a few off the top of my head thoughts. I am sure there are counter opinions galore. Respect. Quote
Schenckel bros Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I am not rich, and I have no support from nobody. But I look for inspiration to be a good overclocker with the Pro league guys. The reason I am in the league is to try to climb to Pro League. I will be sad if Hwbot change one more time, instead to create new things, to remove the main inspiration. I like the idea of the Pro Competitions, but in my point of view, hwbot need to separate the things... its not linked to the fact of Pro League is to the highest level and highest scores... Quote
knopflerbruce Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I don't really get the HW arguments. Massman will - most likely - create stages with only current gen HW, which most of those who joined the pro league already "have" to buy to be competitive. OK, so maybe you wont win against the big teams, but that's already the case? What's the problem? Quote
Bobnova Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Nobody wants to buy Trinity for benching? I can't really see it, given the price of the HW people are already buying in the pro league. Or being given, as the case may be. Quote
Splave Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 there is no room for AMD on hwbot I think, pleeeease no Quote
Viss Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Couldnt agree more Allen! Please dont oblige enthousiasts to bench crap hardware just for the sake of marketing. Quote
GENiEBEN Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Couldnt agree more Allen! Please dont oblige enthousiasts to bench crap hardware just for the sake of marketing. That is a poor excuse, an enthusiast will run / bench anything that has an OS. Edited January 30, 2013 by GENiEBEN Quote
phil Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Benching with AMD is like benching with(very) old hardware. Quote
Splave Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 That is a poor excuse, an enthusiast will run bench anything that has an OS. can you help us think of a better excuse bro Quote
Gunslinger Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 That is a poor excuse, an enthusiast will run bench anything that has an OS. Benching and buying are two different things. Quote
knopflerbruce Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I must have missed something, since when was the Pro OC Cup supposed to be Intel only? Quote
Bobnova Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Couldnt agree more Allen! Please dont oblige enthousiasts to bench crap hardware just for the sake of marketing. What do you think "Pro" sports are all about? It sure as hell isn't the game. (Please note, this is not a criticism of HWBot. This is an observation of "Pro" sports across the board. HWBot's a lot more honest about it than most) Quote
Gunslinger Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I must have missed something, since when was the Pro OC Cup supposed to be Intel only? Since they blew past AMD in the Core 2 days and AMD has not answered the bell for the last 6 years... Quote
Massman Posted January 31, 2013 Author Posted January 31, 2013 AMD definitely has a place in Pro OC - just the fact that they have the fastest IGP/APU as well as the highest raw clock frequency (something which nowadays still attracts the most audience to overclocking) proves that. They don't have a very dominant place, though. Oh, and no one is ever forced to bench or buy anything Quote
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