HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[Mr.Scott]

+1

 

i like hwbot the way it is now.

we need only a more efficient staff that can take decisions about cheating/sharing etc etc in a few days, not months like it is now.

It's not fair to gun down the staff. They're only responding to what people complain about most, although I think the method they choose is a little radical most of the time. You can't please everyone all of the time, that's a given, but there has to be a better way.

[McZonk]

Wish Rev2 would be back!

 

Especially for the bigger teams with lots of members the rev4 seems to be a punch in the gut. So please reconsider your plans.

[Mr.Scott]

Wish Rev2 would be back!

 

Especially for the bigger teams with lots of members the rev4 seems to be a punch in the gut. So please reconsider your plans.

I very much agree.

[ScunnyUK]

The benchers who share hardware today will still share hardware tomorrow, this new revision will make absolutly no difference to them and they will still gain on a personal level.

 

26000 overclockers worldwide.. this revision tells at least 20000 of them that they are worthless for thier teams. A team will become one or two members, the ones who have access to the best hardware, and a big F.U. to everyone else!

 

It would be nice if my team mates and I could meet up each week with plenty of hardware and LN2 but it isnt always practical for many reasons.. and even if we could I would see no point in doing so because only one member, the one who owns the best cpu / gpu is going to contrbute to the team.

 

 

I bench for my team not myself..

[Mr.Scott]

I bench for my team not myself..

As do a lot of us.

[|ron]

I think that, apart from you idea (being pro rev4 or not), you should say clearly what you like and what you don't like, proposing alternatives and so on...

It's worthless writing "I like the way it is, SOME things are ok, but the rest isn't"... ok, what is ok, what is not?

I'm not in the staff, but I think they'll take under consideration hints and suggestions we eventually have, guys

 

p.s: for the long awaits behind staff decisions, I must agree... I think we need more mods guys!

[BenchZowner]

What's the point of doing something that you don't really like and have fun doing ?

"I bench for this", "we bench for that".

 

Sadly the vast majority of people out there take their ranking & team ranking very seriously.

And taking something that seriously is what makes the "weak" people bend or break the rules in any way.

 

On that matter, I have some scores I can share, who wants some free points for his profile & team ?

[FACE411]

The benchers who share hardware today will still share hardware tomorrow, this new revision will make absolutly no difference to them and they will still gain on a personal level.

 

26000 overclockers worldwide.. this revision tells at least 20000 of them that they are worthless for thier teams. A team will become one or two members, the ones who have access to the best hardware, and a big F.U. to everyone else!

 

It would be nice if my team mates and I could meet up each week with plenty of hardware and LN2 but it isnt always practical for many reasons.. and even if we could I would see no point in doing so because only one member, the one who owns the best cpu / gpu is going to contrbute to the team.

 

 

I bench for my team not myself..

 

^ THIS! Very well put, sir.

 

One of these days, the guys here will get it right and make almost everyone happy.... looks like that time just isn't now. Keep trying, though, and you'll find that balance between the manufacturers and the Joes...

 

*spills beer on rig and watches the smoke* - I can has boints for that?

[chew*]

AMD only made X amount of 939 CPU's and since 2 members of the same team bench a X2 3800 Toledo they are now hardware sharing? Ridiculous.

 

CPU sharing for 2d is really a non issue. Vga sharing is more so especially in the popular rankings.

 

Think about it, If someone shares a cpu, voltage required for XX clocks per bench app, and certain attributes are easy to spot.

 

None of that can be applied to VGA's.

 

Lower cpu clocks Drop vga clocks 25mhz on this and raise 25mhz on that change background, try and prove someone did that.

 

Do that 5 times and bang your team just got 100 points for one benchmark in a popular card class. Multiply that by 5 more 3d benchmark apps.

 

food for thought

Edited September 18, 2010 by chew*

[OptyTrooper]

I realize why it's being done chew and in principle I agree but the methodology behind it seems a bit radical. It opens the door to anyone not liking someones score b/c they got pwned to scream hardware sharing.

[chew*]

I realize why it's being done chew and in principle I agree but the methodology behind it seems a bit radical. It opens the door to anyone not liking someones score b/c they got pwned to scream hardware sharing.

 

Totally agree its radical, I also admit I do not like all the changes but on the same token while some of these changes may not benefit me personally, I'm guessing they will benefit the majority.

[Splave]

on the front of hardware sharing its been confirmed before, you can sell to your teammates and its okay. Trust me we have it quoted and SS saved

 

this doesnt help the majority though, you take away the majority by only having the best be worth points

[chew*]

on the front of hardware sharing its been confirmed before, you can sell to your teammates and its okay. Trust me we have it quoted and SS saved

 

this doesnt help the majority though, you take away the majority by only having the best be worth points

 

To my knowledge this is grey area. Me and my whole team could pitch in on something and then sell to each other for a dollar.

 

You can call it selling hardware if you want but it's nothing more than an exploit of the rules.

 

It's still worth points to the user just not worth points to the TEAMS total.

 

The above post is exactly why this needs to be enforced, I have some preety damn good cpu's I'm gonna pass err I mean sell them to team mates so we can dominate 1st through 10th in each category.........

 

Picture getting clearer now?

Edited September 18, 2010 by chew*

[MaadDaawg]

And I though Rev3.x was bad, this makes Rev3.x look brilliant!! Our team stretches from India to Hawaii to the East Coast and beyond. My closest brother is about 1500 miles away - how the hell am I supposed to arrange "team bench sessions"?

 

I SAY BRING BACK REV 2 !!!!!

 

Rev3 sucks and Rev4 is obviously the product of a brain dead corporate dude that deserves to be stillborn. Rev4 could be the end of the bot.

 

And for the record, despite the volume and vitriole of my response - I don't share any hardware with anyone - I still got each piece I've posted sitting in boxes here in the cave DUDES.

[Lippokratis]

I bench for my team not myself..

total agree. there are many bencher there can't battle in the overclockers league so they search for an other goal - to push the team, but this motivation can be destroyed thru rev4.

 

and why is there already a new rev? the break from rev 2 (best in my eyes) to rev 3 was gigantic and now the most of the benchers has adapted but leave it a time so. you are not the formula one, you must not change the rules every year.

 

if you want to avoid hardware sharing just say "please attach a picture of your card/cpu and a note with the nickname". you can't total avoid hardware sharing but in this sports it is difficult. but to penalize the small benchers by deprive the motivation to bench for the team is the wrong way

[K404]

@ Chew. Hey I know fine well hardware sharing is going on... I just went to the supermarket and on the way back I had an idea

 

 

If two long-standing members of a team are caught hardware sharing, they get banned and the team loses 5% of their total points?

 

Long-standing means people cannot jump between teams and tactically damage a rival

 

Taking away from the team as well as the individual means there are repercussions beyond the individual. They have to think about more than just themselves. It should also cultivate checks between members, hopefully not paranoia though.

 

I still believe hardware sharing is done mostly for the benefit of the individual, but the punishment should be a deterrent. Taking someones points away through a ban isn't always. They either have something, or dont have it. Maybe if they are allowed back on HWB, they shouldn't be allowed to score fully in future? Maybe take 10% off their scores?

[TheKarmakazi]

wow this rev sucks:( I like the idea of splitting amateur/pro, but the "top score only counts" thing is retarded. Here in the USA, its not like Europe. Team members are separated by thousands of miles and team bench sessions require flying on a plane or 10 hour drives. Massmans post about encouraging team sessions is a nice idea, but its not practical (unless u live in a tiny country like belgium)

 

Im not even on a team and I think this is an awful idea...

[MaadDaawg]

I bench for fun, part of that fun though is being able to contribute to the success of your team, if not outright DOMINATE each bench. I know I'm not gonna dominate, so I do what I can can add boints for myself and for the team. It's a good way of squaring your efforts against those of your peers. I WISH our team shared HW - I'm going broke buying all the latest stuff. If anything, this sickly ver4 I'm thinking would promote sharing and cheating. I can't win, so why not send my stuff to so and so who's hot and let him/her try and score some points.

 

Do the sponsors really want a large reduction of participants on the bot? If only the top can score, ain't gonna be a whole lot of others posting to look like afterthoughts.

[skierkid450]

as long as the boints rankings for subzero and ambient temps are separate I'm golden. I have 133 submissions right now that range from .1 all the way up to a staggering 3.2 (135 submissions including my reference clock and maxxmem submissions, i delete non-points-scoring submissions so my pages are cleaner)

 

I can't afford a lot of different parts, I can't afford parts dieing, I can't afford LN2 (nor would be within hours of buying the LN2 or DICE), and i don't live within 500 miles of any other overclocker that I know of. The most i've ever paid for a component is $200 for my 1055T, highest next to that was $150 for a used GTX 260 which i sold shortly later. So as you would expect, I can't keep up with the guys with 980X's or even regular i7's, and still have trouble staying with the guys even with lower tier 890FX boards. Doesn't mean I don't get any global points, but my 4.1 sure were hard as hell to get.

 

I am the little guy, and i bring in over 50% of my teams points because no one submits on the team i'm on. I love benching and overclocking, and I lap the hell out of my coolers to be competitive at all

 

I look at people like MASTERCHIEF79 or -Masterchief- (i assume the same person being on the same team) with less than 10 submissions with much better hardware than mine bashing the thought of a new incarnation of the bot. If you havn't even run and submitted all the benches for ONE of your parts (CPU or GPU) I can't see how anyone can value your opinion- you don't care about benching other than epeen, so if you dont get top points you don't even try. I get sh|t for points and I still submit every bench for every crap card and every crappy CPU I can get my hands on, just to see how they perform, and how they compare to others.

 

The main reason I come to the bot is to compare submissions for specific parts, so I can weigh a purchase, see how easily other people have clocked it, or how well it scores in vantage, and in some cases to buy it because not many other people have to see just how far the part can go in my hands. And 25% of the time I come here is to reference a part to suggest someone else buy it.

 

The points are nice, but they're not the only to use the bot.

 

again, separate points for LN2/DICE/Phase/Cascade and H20/air and it will be good to go; regardless of where you live, who you can or can't bench with, and what parts or cooling methods you have access to, and I don't think the user should be moved into a specific category because he/she starts using ln2, but the submissions themselves be.

 

keep a user hardware cap, it shouldn't be any higher than 500 because as it is already most users have nothing but hundreds of points from low end parts so they have a hundred hardware golds from systems I could find at the local dump and don't even submit with their main systems because it would be less than 2 pts.

 

for the team hardware sharing, I think it should be top 2 or 3 submissions instead of one, this still limits sending a chip or gpu around for all the points, but still allows people that happen to have the same hardware to make submissions and contribute, top2 preferred over top3 or top1. have to keep in mind this is for contributions to the Team, user total can still get inflated with sharing, but that's inevitable and uncontrollable sadly

 

that's all i got.

Edited September 18, 2010 by skierkid450

[websmile]

I´m not happy about most of the plans for Rev 4,0- in fact I agree that hardware sharing won´t be eliminated as it still helps big egos to forward in single rankings- all you do ist make the work of new benchers and air and waterbenchers worthless for their teams, thereas demotivate them and spread anger and envy within teams- I am benching alone and this will stay so most of the time, its fun for me to take my system to the imit on air and I don´t need a party for that which kills my concentration and hardware;)- I wasn´t fond of rev 3 and still don´t like it, but compared to parts of your plans for Rev 4 it looks like heaven, at least it contains some logic and does not make big parts of the membership of your community outsiders which are worthless to their teams. These teams are founded in forums, they live of the help, friendship and respect within these communities- what you are intending to do is kill this and spread envy and discriminate any team-member which benches not on LN2. Just my 2 cents and sorry for my bad english, I´m a little rusted. Most of rev 4 simply suxx;)

[bazx]

benchtec is setup around the "team" every bencher contributes what they can and gets thanked by the rest of the "team" for there efforts

 

we fight hard for every .1 point

 

the "team" is central to our being here

 

anything that makes the "team" less important will be hard to sell to benchtec members

[Massman]

Rev3 sucks and Rev4 is obviously the product of a brain dead corporate dude that deserves to be stillborn.

 

I've just updated my business card with this sentence

[vento1]

Personnaly i am all in favour of trying to stamp out hardware sharing or any kind of cheating but i think the rest of rev 4 sucks. I dont see the point of benching for a team if none of your results benefit that team, this rev will do nothing but harm for the overclocking community.

[K404]

I've just updated my business card with this sentence

 

Dont be so hard on yourself. Its the idea that should be stillborn, not you ...... it's too late for that :p

[Neuromancer]

Selling parts at a discount to fellow team members is also a perk that comes from being on a team. Would love to be on the team that sells HW for $1. But every forum I have been on... XS/OCA/OCF/OCN,TR,[H] there are posts that say XXXX off for team members (whether they be Hwbot team members, Folding/Crunching team members or whatever...) It is usually on the order of $10 or %10 sometimes higher, but rarely. Check any classifieds on any forum, new stuff around the corner? Old stuff gets listed up for sale. It is how one feeds the adiction that is OCing/benching.

 

It also rings a death knell for larger teams like Xtremesystems. As well as smaller Overclockers like myself. There is a limited number of different CPUs/GPUs out there... and certain ones are best for certain tests. If anyone on my team has purchased HW and submitted it and I do not know I can beat them... (and how will I know if I have not run that HW before) there is no point in buying it for benching as I will not receive any points for it).

 

Be the best or don't play at all!!!

 

I can see nascar going real far only giving points to the guy that finishes first.

 

 

What is the change good for? More teams!!!

 

Now large teams can split up into sister sites... and retain there boints for HW purchased, and manufacturers get to sit at the top of the bot on ES stuff.

 

rev4 = good for manufacturers, Bad for guys that wait till something is last gen and cheaper.

 

I've just updated my business card with this sentence

 

LMAO that is too funny!