Adjustment Global Points - General Discussion

[K404]

let's say 60% of the active benchers(over 20 submissions to say) in the last year have to vote.

 

DAMNIT! :D

[Guest cowgut]

You can't give more points to the people who afford to buy stuff just because benchmark it's harder.Yes,it if more complex but it will not happen unless you spend the money on the parts needed...

 

2D is having higher points now just because more people bench it,therefore the number of submitters is much higher than 3D. As Roman said,it is highly unlikely that everyone has a 980Ti on the desk and will not submit just because he gets little amount of points.

 

To sum up , lowering the threshold on 3D seems like a good idea .

 

In any case , let's remember why did this phenomen started.Rbuass is an even bigger drama-queen than me so he started 3 topics where he complains that despite the huge-ammount of binning Galaxy did for his results he still has lower points than he expected for this effort. Other people complained also (still a low percentage of actual submitters,keep this in mind) so Massman got stuck with the idea that indeed 3d should get more points ... Nothing negative so far and it is good that people express their feelings but why should other people be influenced by this ?

 

So i come and ask, why is there no poll already?

 

Make a poll with a few questions regarding the direction of the hwbot platform and points . In order to count (and the things stated to change ) let's say 60% of the active benchers(over 20 submissions to say) in the last year have to vote. If the percentage is met then we move along in implementing what people voted .

 

Only after then measures should be taken, not because 1-2-5 people complain about something.I have my complains too and everyone has them but nobody takes measure after asking only me.

 

why are you taking pot shots at Rbuass this place is full of drama queens it don't make them bad guys,man up and don't act like a beach

[Alex@ro]

Because he started the 3d points phenomen and i don't see the majority of community considering this measure necesary..

 

To put it in perspective , average bencher benches 2d and what 3d can afford , maybe he can afford a 980ti maybe not but somehow he is pleased with the way things are. Now comes rbuass who has the key to binn dozens and hundreds of 980TI and complains everyday that 3d points are low.Let's say management listens to rbuass and does what he wants.How will the average bencher feel? Not good.That is the problem,ask the community first and if the majority is happy with this idea then everything is perfect . This is all about the community standing behind this platform,not personal feeling and so on . I do not like to bring this into discussion but you have to remember xtremesystems and other communities that todayy are not doing vvery good. I do not want this to happen to my favorite place so that's why i write this posts. I take responsability for what i write,i am ok with that .

[Guest cowgut]

ok ok I can understand but jeez how many times has the place changed with hardly any polls.

even the leagues were just there 1 day no votes

we will live

have a good new year man don't let it get you all pissed

as for me I have to go bench some low scoring vga in the dx10-11benches so I can vote hahahahaha

 

oh and what you say about xtremesystem yeah I know but all those guys we used to bench with have got older and are pro's or have there own sites now...the golden days I miss that so much

Edited December 30, 2015 by cowgut

[BenchBrothers.de]

This will be a long post so I apologize in advance.

 

Please see this post from the perspective of fighting for global points, not in hardware categories.

 

Yes,it if more complex but it will not happen unless you spend the money on the parts needed...

 

2D is having higher points now just because more people bench it,therefore the number of submitters is much higher than 3D. As Roman said,it is highly unlikely that everyone has a 980Ti on the desk and will not submit just because he gets little amount of points.

 

The most of us overclockers do it as a hobby. So you are limited in time and you have limited money. As long as you aren't addicted to a special 3d-benchmark you have to dicide whether to go 2D or 3D. Most of us will take into account what amount of points at hwbot you can achieve with your resources. Since you can spend your Euro/Dollar/GBP/whatever only once you will make a decision which offen is based on economical facts.

 

With that in mind with 2D you can "earn" more hwboints with the same amount of money so lots of overclockers will therefor focus on 2D.

 

It seems that in the past such a dicision was made by many overclockers and therefor we have more submissions in 2D-benchmarks than in 3D. Because of the way the hwboint-algorithm works it becomes a vicious circle: 3D gets less and less atractiv, more and more submissions for 2D and so on.

 

Lets say you have a budget of 5000 EUR and you will try to get as many points at hwbot as possible. The amount of money is enough to buy hardware for 2D-benchmarking, maybe you even can set up two competitive rigs (X99, Z170) and compete for top spots in SuperPI 1M/32M, wPrime 32M/1024M, Cinebench R11.5, Cinebench R15, hwbot Prime, Geekbench3, PiFast and XTU. On the 3D-part 5K will be a tough job for a rig that can compete for a top spot in Fire Strike/Vantage. For older 3D-benchmarks you need a 2nd rig which doesn't fit into your budget.

 

Because of such a calculation again lots of overclockers will go the 2D-route. And again: More 2D-submissions, lesser points for 3D...

 

To put it in perspective , average bencher benches 2d and what 3d can afford , maybe he can afford a 980ti maybe not but somehow he is pleased with the way things are. Now comes rbuass who has the key to binn dozens and hundreds of 980TI and complains everyday that 3d points are low.Let's say management listens to rbuass and does what he wants.How will the average bencher feel? Not good.That is the problem,ask the community first and if the majority

 

is happy with this idea then everything is perfect . This is all about the community standing behind this platform,not personal feeling and so on . I do not like to bring this into discussion but you have to remember xtremesystems and other communities that todayy are not doing vvery good. I do not want this to happen to my favorite place so that's why i write this posts. I take responsability for what i write,i am ok with that .

 

I agree that binning vgas and then complain about the points is not the right way. But how about binning cpus? Is binning cpus any better? There are users and/or companies that can bin hundreds of cpus. And normal overclockers have to compete with this too. Lets say you have a budget for binning of 10k EUR. How much hardware can you bin? 980Ti - about 15 pieces (reference design). Titan X? About 9. 6700K? About 27. 5960X? About 11 (current prices here in Germany). Going for a top spot in 3DMark FireStrike requieres four good vgas - four out of 15 have to be good in this calculation. To go for a top spot in SuperPI 1M it needs one good cpu - one out of 27 in this calculation (if you go for a 6600K its even more). So this calculation gives you a seven times higher chance to find the "golden" piece of hardware compared for 3D. Again, here you have an advantage for 2D. And because of this mathematical advantage lots of overclockers bin cpus (even people without any kind of support). If they would save the money for binning and go for 3D, most of them would have been able to buy a decent gpu. They don't do so because they know that even the best vga is held back by a crappy cpu. So in many cases waiving on 3D is not a matter of money.

 

Than there is the fact that even a 3 GHz-Titan X could only compete in certain 3D-benchmarks. A 7 GHz-5960X could compete in 2D-benchmarks and rule lots of the old cpu-bound 3D-benchmarks like 2k1, 2k5, 2k6 and AM3 with a mediocre vga.

 

I know that this is a very simple calculation but again this is one more argument for going 2D.

 

Going back in history we (me and may teammates masterchorch and hoschi) needed two QX9650 to achieve a top-10-Score in 2k6 (achieved without a single drop of ln2). We needed only three Nehalem-CPUs to find a wr-cpu. With Gulftown we needed seven or eight to find a 7-ghz-chip (6 cores, 12 threads, taking the AM3-wr at 6.8 ghz) and since Sandy Bridge even a few dozens chips aren't enough to find a decent one. That is an unhealthy development.

 

Lets move on with another advantage for 2D. Trying to achieve a global first place in 2D doesn't necessarily need any kind of modding. Sure, delidding your Skylake-cpu is very likely. But that's the only mod needed nowadays. Go with a 5960X and you never need that. Mainboard, memory and cpu - no need to mod it. Now try to achieve a global first place in Fire Strike. You have to fully mod your vga. Soldering skills and additional parts (i.e. epower or such things which of

 

course cost money) are needed. What's if your 5960X and your vga dies? As long as your cpu isn't physically damaged you have the chance to rma it. Try this with an epowerd Titan X.

 

Of course this argument isn't valid for all cpus (delidding for the win) but its a true for X99 at least.

 

Next one. Roman is offering ln2-pretested Skylakes now. You can buy a decent cpu now with warranty even with delidding and ln2-use. If it fails (and you didn't damage the cpu physically) you get back the next decent chip without going through dozens while binning. Have you ever seen this with vgas? Again you have a slight advantage when going for 2D (of course you can use such a cpu for older 3D-benchmarks and have the same advantage, but a dead epowered Titan X can't very likely be rma-ed).

 

I know that my arguments are nearly black and white and that there are colours between. But every argument is valid for a specific situation - and every single of my arguments favours 2D. You can have a competitive rig for 2D with less money than 3D or you can bin more hardware when both "sides" spend the same amount of money. And even if someone face all disadvantages and benches 3D he gets less points for a top spot. You can see the perfect example today on the hwbot-frontpage:

 

 

 

Yesterday 8 Pack broke the global world record in 3DMark05. And this global wr comes in in 5th position on the frontpage - beaten by a XTU-score from Bullshooter of 740 points. In the hwbot-database there are more tan 23600 faster results in XTU than the score from Bullshooter. In addition, there are six other overclockers which reached the same score earlier than him in the same hardware-category. And yet he beats a global world record on the hwbot-frontpage (and lead to believe it's a bigger achievement). Now tell me: Why someone should spend the money and time for challenging a global in 3D?

 

 

I'm sorry for Bullshooter picking his very good score but it shows perfectly whats wrong with the hwbot-algorithm. The frontpage screams "Go 2D, you'll never reach anything relevant in 3D". Since this is the situation for years now lots of people see this, decide for going 2D and widen the gap between 2D and 3D even more. This has to be fixed as fast as possible! Otherwise 3D will be irrelevant in a few years - low points, less benchers, lower points, lesser benchers and so on. That has nothing to do with the argument that 2D is much more popular. Due tu the algorithm people are pushed in this direction (as it was the case when hwbot differentiated between single- and multi-vga -> every top-overclocker benched dual-gpu-cards). And since this 2D-direction has lots of other advantages (lower platform cost or higher binning budget, usually less benchmark-duration, lower cooling cost, more hwboints) nobody needs to wonder why 2D is more "popular". It's simply because how hwbot worked for the past years.

 

hwbot reached a state where it is the only relevant database for oc-scores. No ripping.org anymore, Futuremark-HOF is irrelevant, forums like XS are nearly dead. Everyone interested in overclocking will use hwbot to share his scores. And therefor hwbot has to take responsibility for all aftereffects of the algorithm.

 

 

 

If someone has read the whole post - thanks for this. Maybe other overclockers think the same, others may see it the other way around. Hopefully my english is good enough to all my arguments understandable.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Leeghoofd]

Very good explenation Andi. Though some reflections: the comparison with the 2 core result where 23K subs are faster is logic as the latter will have more cores of course. The 980Ti should be compared to the fastest running and most core equipped CPU in the Dbase. Maybe e.g. the 5960X... Global points seems on par really in most cases.

 

I think we have to adress the GB points thing per benchmark: especially XTU Global points is the culprit for most 3D benchers. If we take the same CPU again i3-6320 in Cinebench (108 points) or in Wprime (98 points) thus scoring way lower global points than Ian's run while it is the fastest dual core on the Bot in some benchmarks.

 

Than again most top XTU scores require LN2'ed memory, something many will also avoid... If we put money vs points yep than it all goes downhill again

Edited December 31, 2015 by Leeghoofd

[Guest cowgut]

well I guess there is only 1 thing they can do now....man a am sure going to miss XTU

[BenchBrothers.de]

Very good explenation Andi.

 

I'm not Andi. Don't mix up BenchBrothers.de with BenchBros...

 

 

 

Though some reflections: the comparison with the 2 core result where 23K subs are faster is logic as the latter will have more cores of course.

 

Of course the 23k results run on a higher core count. That doesn't change anything when it appears that a 23000th fastest score is worth more than a global world record.

 

 

 

By the way: A happy new year to you all!

[aerotracks]

Nice write up, Jens. Just a little note, you seem one of the few that can do without side stabbing:D

Happy new year to you as well!

[Guest george.kokovinis]

^^^^

 

Still though, references to stubbing do not help.

 

Broad minds, maturity, general consensus ( as much as possible )

are the key words.

 

Let's step back a bit and look at the forest and not the tree that each one

likes best.

 

Then, there is a remote possibility, that we may reach a form of mutual

understanding.

[Sweet]

Yes, I agree with you @george\.kokovinis....the discusión is always very good, and each of us, from your own perspective must give valid arguments, in defending the position

 

So, 3D Vs. 2D (points of course), is that question only ? or XTU vs 3D ?

 

We also might ask, HWBot for a few with more $ or Hw for many with few $ ?

 

very few are available with 2 or 3 980 Ti, few can to risk US 1400 (for example like me for a 980Ti), in ln2, with only one 980Ti

 

only a good balance between both positions, will make "all guys or teams" We could enjoy overclocking and see reflected in this work in points earned by the effort of money and time committed

 

Well, It is very difficult for me to express myself in another language that is not native, I hope you understand my message :celebration:

 

Sorry but I must -edit- about 8 pack 3D and 8 pack 2D

 

8 pack in this case, the above is only part of reality - @BenchBrothers\.de -It was a very long post, 1/2 hour to understand you , as you can verify the points earned 3d Bench (many or few, i think many) but he also won many points in 2D at the same time.

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3079506_ -for example- 153.56 points in 2D -cinebench r15-

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3079502_8_pack_unigine_heaven___xtreme_preset_2x_geforce_gtx_980_ti_9911.05_dx11_marks -for example- many more points (because thats a W.Record) that in 2D

 

So, and again: 3D vs 2D ? or 3D vs XTU ?, OC for all or OC for a few ?, thats is the question, like Shakespeare

 

http://hwbot.org/user/8_pack/, sorry 8 pack, only for example, you are a Monster of OC anyway

 

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Sweet

[steponz]

Because he started the 3d points phenomen and i don't see the majority of community considering this measure necesary..

 

To put it in perspective , average bencher benches 2d and what 3d can afford , maybe he can afford a 980ti maybe not but somehow he is pleased with the way things are. Now comes rbuass who has the key to binn dozens and hundreds of 980TI and complains everyday that 3d points are low.Let's say management listens to rbuass and does what he wants.How will the average bencher feel? Not good.That is the problem,ask the community first and if the majority is happy with this idea then everything is perfect . This is all about the community standing behind this platform,not personal feeling and so on . I do not like to bring this into discussion but you have to remember xtremesystems and other communities that todayy are not doing vvery good. I do not want this to happen to my favorite place so that's why i write this posts. I take responsability for what i write,i am ok with that .

 

 

Becareful Alex.. You might get docked points as I did for saying the exact same things about binning.... and the same person.... its a joke.. no more points for me...

[rbuass]

"Now comes rbuass who has the key to binn dozens and hundreds of 980TI and complains everyday that 3d points are low.Let's say management listens to rbuass and does what he wants"

 

Maybe you don't know me enough to talk this kind of things...

I don't bin a lot of cards, and even, I don't have a lots of cards.

I don't need to prove nothing for you, but I have purshased my cards, and you don't see me overclocking easy 4 way (is not strange for you, if I don't have 4 way scores, .... if I have hundred of cards?)...

Stop to bunny, because this issue was bring by Hwbot, and because they consider a valid issue.

If the case was bring here by Hwbot Administration, is not because Rbuass, but because is a valid question...

If you have no working 3D, or are happy enough with 3D points and rankings, leave your opinion with respect, like others.

Overclock more, and talk less about others.

Edited January 3, 2016 by rbuass

[Alex@ro]

"Now comes rbuass who has the key to binn dozens and hundreds of 980TI and complains everyday that 3d points are low.Let's say management listens to rbuass and does what he wants"

 

Maybe you don't know me enough to talk this kind of things...

I don't bin a lot of cards, and even, I don't have a lots of cards.

I don't need to prove nothing for you, but I have purshased my cards, and you don't see me overclocking easy 4 way (is not strange for you, if I don't have 4 way scores, .... if I have hundred of cards?)...

Stop to bunny, because this issue was bring by Hwbot, and because they consider a valid issue.

If the case was bring here by Hwbot Administration, is not because Rbuass, but because is a valid question...

If you have no working 3D, or are happy enough with 3D points and rankings, leave your opinion with respect, like others.

Overclock more, and talk less about others.

 

You quote me and edit what i say. I did not say that you OWN hyndreds of cards , i say that your cards ARE BINNED FROM HUNDREDS .

 

For people to understand why i say this,for the Galaxy GOC Contest this year there were about 30-35 cards bought ,i reffer to Galaxy GOC Ln2 Edition at 1000$ . Despite the huge cost,most of them were absolute thrash cards,i was not the only one that got a 1470/1950 card that failed . The best piece on ln2 was Dancop's around 2000 core. Also the cards used for finals maxxed before 2050 .

 

Now you and your friend schenkelbros submit multiple benches at 2150-2170 with your cards ,see the binning?

 

You are really a Hyprocrite with capital H rbuass .

 

Now i quote you:

 

"For the last, but not the least, I keep my point of view:

Should be Forbidden:

Engeenering Samples

Not public BIOS and hardware"

 

Really ? Your Galax Power card is not a ES or must had been released in the market and i missed it... Your binned 980Ti is also not public since binned from hundreds the possibility of hitting this retail is less than 1%.

 

Now this is the drama , how can you expect the rest of the people that do not have the cash to purchase a single 980TI to be happy with the change?Moreover how do you expect people that do not have the connections/multiple thousands of dollars to binn 980TI yet they own only a single normal card to agree with this change ?

 

Is it so hard to understand that modifying input equals a different output?Is it so hard to understand that 2d benches are more popular hence they get more points? We want our hobby to get a bigger fan-pool yet when this happens we are still not happy because they don't submit 3D with 980TI...

 

 

I think that adding WR points for hard 3D like firestrikes would please the industry hard-workers and maybe adding a cap to XTU algorithm so that when certain amount of submissions is achieved points don't grow anymore.

 

For example,this is a result done with a single 980TI on water,an average card:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3057119_kimir_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_gtx_980_ti_10255_marks

 

This gets 20 points . What amount of points do you think this deserves?In my opinion this is pretty fair considering the amount of effort to achieve this.

 

An average 6700K(altough quite good) with good tweaking gets 24 global points:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3084314_george.kokovinis_xtu_core_i7_6700k_1715_marks

 

Yes , there are additional 19.7 hw points because of the popularity.

 

Why are some people unhappy?Because a 1000$ 5960X + 700$ 980Ti gets slighty less points than a 2d results with 6700K ? Well maybe your coworker earns more money than you doing less complicated things, equity is hard to find in our world.

 

Especially since most people around here tend to forget that the majority of people run benches on hardware they purchased for doing something else(gaming,rendering,work,etc) not the other way around and this is very important to remember folks,our hobby is optional not mandatory ...

Edited January 4, 2016 by Alex@ro

[rbuass]

You quote me and edit what i say. I did not say that you OWN hyndreds of cards , i say that your cards ARE BINNED FROM HUNDREDS .

 

For people to understand why i say this,for the Galaxy GOC Contest this year there were about 30-35 cards bought ,i reffer to Galaxy GOC Ln2 Edition at 1000$ . Despite the huge cost,most of them were absolute thrash cards,i was not the only one that got a 1470/1950 card that failed . The best piece on ln2 was Dancop's around 2000 core. Also the cards used for finals maxxed before 2050 .

 

Now you and your friend schenkelbros submit multiple benches at 2150-2170 with your cards ,see the binning?

 

You are really a Hyprocrite with capital H rbuass .

 

Now i quote you:

 

"For the last, but not the least, I keep my point of view:

Should be Forbidden:

Engeenering Samples

Not public BIOS and hardware"

 

Really ? Your Galax Power card is not a ES or must had been released in the market and i missed it... Your binned 980Ti is also not public since binned from hundreds the possibility of hitting this retail is less than 1%.

 

Now this is the drama , how can you expect the rest of the people that do not have the cash to purchase a single 980TI to be happy with the change?Moreover how do you expect people that do not have the connections/multiple thousands of dollars to binn 980TI yet they own only a single normal card to agree with this change ?

 

Is it so hard to understand that modifying input equals a different output?Is it so hard to understand that 2d benches are more popular hence they get more points? We want our hobby to get a bigger fan-pool yet when this happens we are still not happy because they don't submit 3D with 980TI...

 

 

I think that adding WR points for hard 3D like firestrikes would please the industry hard-workers and maybe adding a cap to XTU algorithm so that when certain amount of submissions is achieved points don't grow anymore.

 

For example,this is a result done with a single 980TI on water,an average card:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3057119_kimir_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_gtx_980_ti_10255_marks

 

This gets 20 points . What amount of points do you think this deserves?In my opinion this is pretty fair considering the amount of effort to achieve this.

 

An average 6700K(altough quite good) with good tweaking gets 24 global points:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3084314_george.kokovinis_xtu_core_i7_6700k_1715_marks

 

Yes , there are additional 19.7 hw points because of the popularity.

 

Why are some people unhappy?Because a 1000$ 5960X + 700$ 980Ti gets slighty less points than a 2d results with 6700K ? Well maybe your coworker earns more money than you doing less complicated things, equity is hard to find in our world.

 

Especially since most people around here tend to forget that the majority of people run benches on hardware they purchased for doing something else(gaming,rendering,work,etc) not the other way around and this is very important to remember folks,our hobby is optional not mandatory ...

 

I have no words to say how ridiculous is your post.

 

First all, Dancop qualified himself with many more than 2000 ... and is not Galax fault or anyone if you get no your spot for the competition.

Second... Jacson (my friend), also don't bin cards, since all cards was draw (were raffled) at the even, and every overclocker got 2 cards... so... Jacson won by merit.

So, I don't think you have moral to talk about Hipocrit, since Hwbot bring this issue, and you, intead to use the issue with respect to give your opinion, are here talking stupid things...

Why you didn't let your opinion WHY you think 3D points and rankings are ok?... Instead to accuse about what you don't know, and be by side of your friends?

Can you imagine if I call hundreds of friends to take my side?.... be sure... I can buzz this topic a lot, but is not my way.

 

Will let you crying alone.

For me... is enough... if Hwbot will not moderate offenses and stupid things you are talking, and even noticed you never talk nothing about you or your scores... so what are you doing here?

[Schenckel bros]

You quote me and edit what i say. I did not say that you OWN hyndreds of cards , i say that your cards ARE BINNED FROM HUNDREDS .

 

For people to understand why i say this,for the Galaxy GOC Contest this year there were about 30-35 cards bought ,i reffer to Galaxy GOC Ln2 Edition at 1000$ . Despite the huge cost,most of them were absolute thrash cards,i was not the only one that got a 1470/1950 card that failed . The best piece on ln2 was Dancop's around 2000 core. Also the cards used for finals maxxed before 2050 .

 

Now you and your friend schenkelbros submit multiple benches at 2150-2170 with your cards ,see the binning?

 

You are really a Hyprocrite with capital H rbuass .

 

Now i quote you:

 

"For the last, but not the least, I keep my point of view:

Should be Forbidden:

Engeenering Samples

Not public BIOS and hardware"

 

Really ? Your Galax Power card is not a ES or must had been released in the market and i missed it... Your binned 980Ti is also not public since binned from hundreds the possibility of hitting this retail is less than 1%.

 

Now this is the drama , how can you expect the rest of the people that do not have the cash to purchase a single 980TI to be happy with the change?Moreover how do you expect people that do not have the connections/multiple thousands of dollars to binn 980TI yet they own only a single normal card to agree with this change ?

 

Is it so hard to understand that modifying input equals a different output?Is it so hard to understand that 2d benches are more popular hence they get more points? We want our hobby to get a bigger fan-pool yet when this happens we are still not happy because they don't submit 3D with 980TI...

 

 

I think that adding WR points for hard 3D like firestrikes would please the industry hard-workers and maybe adding a cap to XTU algorithm so that when certain amount of submissions is achieved points don't grow anymore.

 

For example,this is a result done with a single 980TI on water,an average card:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3057119_kimir_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_gtx_980_ti_10255_marks

 

This gets 20 points . What amount of points do you think this deserves?In my opinion this is pretty fair considering the amount of effort to achieve this.

 

An average 6700K(altough quite good) with good tweaking gets 24 global points:

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3084314_george.kokovinis_xtu_core_i7_6700k_1715_marks

 

Yes , there are additional 19.7 hw points because of the popularity.

 

Why are some people unhappy?Because a 1000$ 5960X + 700$ 980Ti gets slighty less points than a 2d results with 6700K ? Well maybe your coworker earns more money than you doing less complicated things, equity is hard to find in our world.

 

Especially since most people around here tend to forget that the majority of people run benches on hardware they purchased for doing something else(gaming,rendering,work,etc) not the other way around and this is very important to remember folks,our hobby is optional not mandatory ...

 

 

I got my cards in GOC, and before, I bought one card, with invoice, and payed. All cards retail, purshased, and they even informed about request (purshase).

If you don't get your place to the competition, is not because the Galax HOF GOC is not good, but one of the options.

1- you didn't have lucky

2- you are mediocre overclocker

[Alex@ro]

Oh man , you understand absolutely nothing from what i say . Look,i get that you get paid and sponsored by the results/rank at hwbot and it is normal that you defend what would suit you best,in this case higher rewarding 3d points . However this should not influence the rest of the people and decisions should not be taken before asking.

 

As i stated my opinion about the ranking and also prooved who wants this change and why, i am out of here . Btw Hypocrite is no offence,it simply describes the way a person acts and behaves which is absolutely the case of @rbuass , an absolute deceiver .

[Guest george.kokovinis]

Nuclear missiles fired.

 

Usually the truth is somewhere in between.

 

And under the missiles, US, the average JOE, who are naïve to believe

that we have a single chance of showing to the community something good.

 

Between the missiles and the average JOE, comes a reluctant Administration,

unable or unwilling to REALLY SEE, what must be done.

 

Sam ( OCX ) said it all. Leave things alone.

 

Is this site finally for the masses or the interests of a handful of people and

hardware vendors ?

 

Pieter started a thread in all good will ( I suppose ) to get feedback.

It has evolved into a slippery road.

 

RESPECT TO ALL from my humble side. The side of the average JOE.:ws:

[Gunslinger]

I'm of the opinion that something does need to be done to increase interest in 3D benchmarking and balance the "XTU factor" we're seeing.

 

Not trying to single out anyone or any single idea, but thought I'd share something I have to remind my employees from time to time. In this case, we're a large group of people and not a single person, but the ideas still apply.

 

 

 

[Splave]

#2dLivesMatter

[der8auer]

[Leeghoofd]

waiting for the outcome...

 

 

Where's me points?

[Alex@ro]

I'm of the opinion that something does need to be done to increase interest in 3D benchmarking and balance the "XTU factor" we're seeing.

 

Not trying to single out anyone or any single idea, but thought I'd share something I have to remind my employees from time to time. In this case, we're a large group of people and not a single person, but the ideas still apply.

 

 

 

 

Appreciate your point of view,maybe you can give your input furthermore on this matter.

 

Don't hate me,i am trying hard to win the popularity award early in 2016

 

 

The XTU integration within hwbot represented one of the greatest achievments in the last years due to Intel involvement and also the great amount of new submitters. Limiting the points or lowering them will trigger a switch to this and will slow down the phenomenon.So getting new users and great growing with XTU was great, now it is notbecause some people do not agree?

 

The 3D points are even more interesting . In order to anticipate the future of overclocking one should remember the history.

 

Back in the days 3D was far more interesting mainly because OVERCLOCKING meant INCREASED PERFORMANCE SURPASSING HIGHER PRICED MODELS . Remember TI4200 vs TI4600,remember 8800GTS vs 8800GTX remember Radeon 9700 vs 9800 . All the lower models when overclocked would surpass the high-end easily .Surely the high-end could be overclocked as well but because the middle cards could surpass the high-end they were more popular and earned points in the ranking . Also the price for a top card was 400$ then 500$ then gew up till the moon . Do you have any idea how things are in a country like mine(and there are many others) where a 980TI costs 1000$ and this represents a 2 medium-wage monthly income ?

 

Now let's see the situation today . The way things are ,GTX 980TI is THE ONLY choice for hard 3d's . That is because :

 

1. GTX980 is too weak ,even overclocked to 2100-2200 core it is the equivalent of an air overclocked 980TI

2. AMD high-end is not competitive enough in benchmarks

 

I see everyday people having fun with cheap i3 and 6700K in 2d or legacy benchamrks however there are few results with 980TI and X99 on ln2 .Why should the 3D points be increased for a direct benefit of the ones who can afford this kind of hardware ?

 

I think the better way of handling this is adding WR points to 1-way,2-way,3-way per category as well.Well i mean adding another layer of WR points into each category . For example Perica's submission :

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3068517_perica_barii_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_3x_geforce_gtx_980_ti_27910_marks

 

Best 3-way results would get 53 points from global 3,0 points since in global WR of 3d and 100 points for 3-way WR ranking . Overall submission will have 152 points which is good for a 3-way effort .

 

Also increasing the Global 3D WR points from top 10 being awarded to top 20 getting additional points with a lower thresold between places would be nice.

 

IMHO...

[steponz]

Appreciate your point of view,maybe you can give your input furthermore on this matter.

 

Don't hate me,i am trying hard to win the popularity award early in 2016

 

 

The XTU integration within hwbot represented one of the greatest achievments in the last years due to Intel involvement and also the great amount of new submitters. Limiting the points or lowering them will trigger a switch to this and will slow down the phenomenon.So getting new users and great growing with XTU was great, now it is notbecause some people do not agree?

 

The 3D points are even more interesting . In order to anticipate the future of overclocking one should remember the history.

 

Back in the days 3D was far more interesting mainly because OVERCLOCKING meant INCREASED PERFORMANCE SURPASSING HIGHER PRICED MODELS . Remember TI4200 vs TI4600,remember 8800GTS vs 8800GTX remember Radeon 9700 vs 9800 . All the lower models when overclocked would surpass the high-end easily .Surely the high-end could be overclocked as well but because the middle cards could surpass the high-end they were more popular and earned points in the ranking . Also the price for a top card was 400$ then 500$ then gew up till the moon . Do you have any idea how things are in a country like mine(and there are many others) where a 980TI costs 1000$ and this represents a 2 medium-wage monthly income ?

 

Now let's see the situation today . The way things are ,GTX 980TI is THE ONLY choice for hard 3d's . That is because :

 

1. GTX980 is too weak ,even overclocked to 2100-2200 core it is the equivalent of an air overclocked 980TI

2. AMD high-end is not competitive enough in benchmarks

 

I see everyday people having fun with cheap i3 and 6700K in 2d or legacy benchamrks however there are few results with 980TI and X99 on ln2 .Why should the 3D points be increased for a direct benefit of the ones who can afford this kind of hardware ?

 

I think the better way of handling this is adding WR points to 1-way,2-way,3-way per category as well.Well i mean adding another layer of WR points into each category . For example Perica's submission :

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3068517_perica_barii_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_3x_geforce_gtx_980_ti_27910_marks

 

Best 3-way results would get 53 points from global 3,0 points since in global WR of 3d and 100 points for 3-way WR ranking . Overall submission will have 152 points which is good for a 3-way effort .

 

Also increasing the Global 3D WR points from top 10 being awarded to top 20 getting additional points with a lower thresold between places would be nice.

 

IMHO...

 

YES>>>>>>>>> This is the overhaul 3D needs... Cheaper point alternatives... like 2d....

 

The goal.. Make it cheaper to be able to compete.... more points for this area...

You could remove all the points for the tops scores and give it to this area and I would be happy... More competition...

 

You will never be able to take out binned.... You can't prove anything....

[Strong Island]

I love the idea of adding world record points to 1, 2, 3, 4 way and also making it added to top 20. That's a great idea. I would definitely want to bench more 3d.