rbuass Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Well... Off Topic! Time to Time rethink benchmarks that aggregate points. No points for Catzilla Port Royal Unigine Heaven Superposition Cinebench R20 Add points for 3DMARK 01/03/05 Spi And maybe add some gaming benchmarks to bring newcomers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted June 29, 2019 Crew Share Posted June 29, 2019 Catzilla too easy to bug too, hence why it lost the points Legacy 3DMarks are too easy points with a strong cpu, no more need for a GPU OC CB R20 and Port Royal for sure in the near future 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators websmile Posted June 29, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 29, 2019 Of course it makes sense to leave only 3d marks that need 3k+++ cpus to work, that makes it better ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbjaust Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Just make legacy 3DMarks CPU benches instead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andressergio Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I benched for years using XTU and these last months achieved great things...I had 1388 Points now only 1113 ? This Is Totally unfair brothers. Besides, many of my humble records were on XTU. This is very sad really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyNotSoSlim Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 This kills the hwbot. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted June 30, 2019 Crew Share Posted June 30, 2019 Why do you think it took us so long to finally do this. We know it's unfair for those that got honest scores. But it's impossible to differentiate btn honest and bugged outputs, especially with air or water cooled setups that got better scores due to elevated temps. Some intentionally did it for sure. It was a tough decision, reversing is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker2ka Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I spent 30+ hours onlyfor 699 score on i3 6100. (Not counting a week of fine tuning). It saddens me too to see that the scores cannot be differentiated, but nevertheless it was the right call 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andressergio Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Why do you think it took us so long to finally do this. We know it's unfair for those that got honest scores. But it's impossible to differentiate btn honest and bugged outputs, especially with air or water cooled setups that got better scores due to elevated temps. Some intentionally did it for sure. It was a tough decision, reversing is not an option. Very unfair Al, i spent years buying every single Intel Series, delidding and days with each CPU to get the best score possible. And now 4 months in a row to get into Enthusiast League Top 10 Worldwide Place 9, now i'm Place 21 and what is worse ALL my XTU Scores are on "0" not disabled so this is not a temporary measure. Moreover not all my best XTU Scores were made with latest versions but with the first we all started. Besides i never spotted nothing wrong on XTU it produces consitent scores. There are many benchmarks were they can cheat or super tweak, this was the only one that went straight to hwbot. For me in South America where hardware costs 2 times US value with no binning chance and always making a big effort and specially not having those CPU's no more if you enable it again how to do ? Personally and with all my respect i found this measure as an Abuse for All HWBOT members. Sergio. and as HWBOT member since 2006 and xtremesystems this is not only sad news but an abuse as it affects more Overclockers l 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Why do you think it took us so long to finally do this. We know it's unfair for those that got honest scores. But it's impossible to differentiate btn honest and bugged outputs, especially with air or water cooled setups that got better scores due to elevated temps. Some intentionally did it for sure. It was a tough decision, reversing is not an option. Not that I have any illusions that decisions can be reversed, but Alby, if we talk bugs, then almost 90% of all benchmarks have a way or other to be manipulated. Even @rbuass proved in the past that Futuremark's latest benchmarks are cheatable. Did anyone observe any change in that ? Nope. I can see both sides and understand, but it is very disheartening indeed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted June 30, 2019 Crew Share Posted June 30, 2019 There's no winner in this all... Everyone will loose points.. For your info I have benched each cpu on ln2 for xtu... Nevertheless the last days were a real eye opener that this benchmark still has major flaws. On top of that, the amount of subs makes moderation a total nitemare: no way of differentiating any of the later versions. No way to tell if it was intentionally bugged yes or no... Yes George any benchmark can be cheated, but you can usually detect it way easier than this prime95 software output. How do I moderate these subs? I can pull all out of whack scores... But some versions just score better on some hardware.. Some need 32bit, others 64bit... There's no proper foolproof way possible. I stated before it should have been pulled way sooner. Anyway I take it on me, call it abuse of power, but I need to take into account the best for the community. I hope we can properly test XTU 2.0 before it will be released next year. Intel told all the feedback from the hwbot members is being taking into account and them issues are being ironed out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasttrack Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) I can very clearly understand what moderating means. And what real nightmare it is. We hope for the best. I guess nothing is perfect, moreover when remote moderation on NON bulletproof benchmarks is close to impossible. A bit off topic though. Since HWBOT moves ahead, and leagues have remained more or less the same, how about some very easy moderation on submissions made by "enthusiasts" with 5.7ghz CBR15 I7-7700K and 1.65V on "water". Ha I personally do not dare to apply 1.65V on Dice, lol. Edited June 30, 2019 by Fasttrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeropluszero Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/30/2019 at 5:25 AM, Leeghoofd said: Catzilla too easy to bug too, hence why it lost the points Legacy 3DMarks are too easy points with a strong cpu, no more need for a GPU OC CB R20 and Port Royal for sure in the near future Respectfully, a strong CPU does not guarantee a good score for 01, 03, 05 and 06. It contributes a lot, but it is absolutely NOT the only thing. If we're going ahead to R20, please remove globals from R15 - No need for globals for same benchmark. 14 hours ago, Leeghoofd said: Why do you think it took us so long to finally do this. We know it's unfair for those that got honest scores. But it's impossible to differentiate btn honest and bugged outputs, especially with air or water cooled setups that got better scores due to elevated temps. Some intentionally did it for sure. It was a tough decision, reversing is not an option. I for one always appreciate your work Albrecht. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker2ka Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Fasttrack said: Since HWBOT moves ahead, and leagues have remained more or less the same, how about some very easy moderation on submissions made by "enthusiasts" with 5.7ghz CBR15 I7-7700K and 1.65V on "water". Well, it should be stated clearly what ambient means. If you put your radiator in ice it's chilled water, but if you open the window in winter with -20C outside it's ambient. Personally, if you need your coat on while benching it's not ambient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unityofsaints Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) On 6/29/2019 at 8:25 PM, Leeghoofd said: CB R20 and Port Royal for sure in the near future Those are the exact wrong benches to add! CB20 is just CB15 with a different (read boring) rendered scene, Port Royal is only supported by the more expensive half of half of the new GPU marked - how much more exclusive can it get? At least XTU runs on everything Intel back to Sandy. If you want to add new benches which don't repeat past mistakes, look at Superposition, Y-Cruncher, GPUpi 4.0 (when it becomes available). Edited July 1, 2019 by unityofsaints 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterbitz Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I do not know if my comment infuriates or displeases others, but always consider XTU an easy test to get points either hw or global since with any micro points were earned, I do not say that this bad but if the moderation of HWBOT considers that it is not worth the penalty did the right thing, I'm not a professional in the OC but you always have to see the positive side of things, I also support that the lost or disabled points of the XTU apply to other tests that users can choose by voting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 1, 2019 Crew Share Posted July 1, 2019 One thing at a time... new point distribution for benchies are not even in a draft, but we need to move on at some point... First up the Benchmate testing compo, the rest will follow... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 On 6/30/2019 at 3:18 PM, andressergio said: I benched for years using XTU and these last months achieved great things...I had 1388 Points now only 1113 ? This Is Totally unfair brothers. Besides, many of my humble records were on XTU. This is very sad really. XTU would be fine ... if you did the bench a few times per processor. I lost 60 points as I did not have many subs. But the hardcore nuts in here try bounce the score even 1 point for a gold cup. How many starts? 24 hours 48 hours. Can think of nothing worse than siting there pressing the start & hope for good luck. It wastes your life. _________ On the other hand the newcomers love the bench & get a big woody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samsarulz Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 CB20 even gives you more score than R15 hahahah. I would preffer to give a chance to R15 with 4K file (one modded at OCN). We all saw this day will come yet i dont see Splave, XA, or other top OCer complaining. Turn the page from XTU and focus on Geekbench, GPUPi or other bench you like. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco.is.not.80 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 I lost quite a few points but believe it was the right decision and appreciate the volunteers who continue to keep hwbot going. Thank you. XTU was what introduced me to the bot by the way... it lead to the rookie rumble... the novice nimble... never looked back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProKoN Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Loved the sheer volume of subs for this bench with cheap obscure hardware. Great gateway bench for new comers to join the community, learn and step up there game. I personally like benching 2d and this one I really enjoyed although I know some have mixed feelings about this one. Hopefully this technical difficulty is intermittent and we can resume our regular scheduled program soon. If nothing else, we had a good run babe...rip...till death do us part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGenius Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 I personally can't stand all the rookies who do nothing BUT XTU. This forces them to branch out and try new things. XTU is benching for dummies. On 7/6/2019 at 9:56 AM, ProKoN said: Great gateway bench for new comers to join the community, learn and step up there game. Except MANY of them don't learn ANYTHING besides XTU. And step nowhere from there. It's pathetic frankly. Hence what I said above... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumper118 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Are you saying I am going to loose thousands of points I got benching the laptops in the local pc world? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crew Leeghoofd Posted July 9, 2019 Crew Share Posted July 9, 2019 Yes the full zero points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtsurfer Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 This is the best news/decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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