The line between ambient water and chilled/cold

[Elkim]

Hey guys,

 

I'd like to know your opinions on the subject: The line between chilled water and normal water.

 

1) Temps or purpose?

 

Is it about temps which are hard to verify. Or is it about cooling method and purpose by itself?

 

Example:

 

A) You live in area where is 30°C and your home is equipped with AC, so you're benching in 20°C. Ambient or chiiled/cold? I say ambient.

 

B) You live in area where is 24°C and you run AC to 16°C or below with purpose to cool down the air so the temp of water in loop goes down, is that ambient or chilled/cold water? I say chilled/cold

 

C) You put out rads in winter or open the window to decrease temps below normal temperatures human being lives in for 24/7. Ambient or chilled/cold? I say chilled/cold.

 

I think weather cooling as ambient is nonsence, its all about purpose and even that some people like low temps for living, I think that no-one really lives in 18°C or below produced by AC for 24/7/365.

 

Please kindly answer in:

 

A:

B:

C:

 

and share additional thoughts.

 

Enthusiast league is mess really and the situation isnt really clear a there is much headroom to infinite argue what is or isnt chilled/cold.

 

Thanks

Edited March 26, 2017 by Elkim

[Guest cowgut]

I think i go with c

besides a good coke whore if you have not put your aio rad in a bucket of ice blocks and or use the ice water in the rad you have not lived.

not sub zero but if you battle warm ambient temps it would help those that do the most with just about any vga or cpu.you dail a ice bucket rig in and you can show up some big money water coolers and even some phase and dice runs

 

for those that go out in -10f backyards and post pictures, well that really brings up the cool factor and just out of human nature we are willing to forgive an "enthusiast league" bencher and not cast him in a league where every submission is at least dice.

theres not too many naïve overclockers that are into the scene around here, they know the hardware speeds and what temps they run them at.

[Elkim]

Not tried good coke yet, I worry I might really like it I run my rads outside, atm 2x MORA 3 PRO, its fun during winter really, but I moved to LN2 already.

 

The point is, if you run AC just to cooldown the water in loop, if its should be submitted as chilled/cold water. People argues, that its not, because other people just have AC in their home for living or northmen can open the window and they want to have same temp headroom.

[Alex@ro]

I say under 10 ambient is extreme,over that it is ambient,ac at 16 degrees no way is extreme,some people live at 15-16 degrees ambient in room during winter,not big deal.In fact living at under 20 room temp in winter is far better than having 20-22+.

[Elkim]

I say under 10 ambient is extreme,over that it is ambient,ac at 16 degrees no way is extreme,some people live at 15-16 degrees ambient in room during winter,not big deal.In fact living at under 20 room temp in winter is far better than having 20-22+.

 

The point isn't about line between ambient and extreme but between ambient and apprentice, submitting between water (custom) and water (chilled/cold) while submitting the result.

[Mr.Scott]

No point in continuing this. It is un-monitorable and has been talked about in a half a dozen other threads.

[Elkim]

No point in continuing this. It is un-monitorable and has been talked about in a half a dozen other threads.

 

This is not about if its or isnt monitorable and if it can't be verified. Let's say I want to play fair, I really do, but I'm not sure if I should submit water (custom) or water (chilled/cold).

[superpatodonaldo]

My thought about cooling (water ....but could include air):

 

there is or not condensation?

No = ambient

Yes = chill

[Elkim]

My thought about cooling (water ....but could include air):

 

there is or not condensation?

No = ambient

Yes = chill

 

Good idea. But with AC = less condenzation, it dries the air, and with some airflow I can run very cold water with no condenzation

[Mr.Scott]

This is not about if its or isnt monitorable and if it can't be verified. Let's say I want to play fair, I really do, but I'm not sure if I should submit water (custom) or water (chilled/cold).

Let your conscience be your guide then. If your water is below normal living ambient temps (which IMO is under 20c) then it's chilled.

 

FWIW, the people that want to be 'fair' are decreasing to minority status.

[Elkim]

Let your conscience be your guide then. If your water is below normal living ambient temps (which IMO is under 20c) then it's chilled.

 

 

Conscience for sure, but this is what should be stated as cooling method. Because at this moment it might be kinda focusing altho that I agree with you and makes same sense to me...

[Splave]

Can't go by load temp alone either conductonaut on normal water can be 50c or less 1.45v xtu

[superpatodonaldo]

Good idea. But with AC = less condenzation, it dries the air, and with some airflow I can run very cold water with no condenzation

 

yeah, you could get cold water;

if I need to cohibent plant pipes to avoid condensation I assume it as "chilled"

 

Obviously everything depens to conscience

It's not so easy to classify water cooling for everybody

[KaRtA]

Can't go by load temp alone either conductonaut on normal water can be 50c or less 1.45v xtu

 

Only on low vtt PLL and dodgy sensors man. Less than 1.11v on asrock makes them big out.

 

Subbing to see where this goes.

[Aleslammer]

Generally my concept on ambient is if it happens on the earths surface where people live in towns of 20-30000 people then no problem, then again I kicked up a league to avoid the argument. If you compare the top 10 spots in the leagues the line between Enthusiast & Apprentice (Hate This Name) is a little fuzzy, which fits with my first statement if comparing cooling only. Then again if you compare all user's league placement overlap is huge, which points more to effort and using the system to your advantage than to what cooling is used. Last the dirty word money comes into play and or the ability to have friend/client's hardware for abuse. As for setting an ambient limit in the category benching I see no point, competitions set it and if the result is out of normal range make them prove it.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Aleslammer

[knopflerbruce]

Rad in the window is the oldest trick in the book, not necessarily just to cool the system, but to dump the heat outside. Classifying it as chilled when all you did was dumpng the heat out of your room is a bit odd. AC is borderlne, but strictly speaking it's chilled. Not that I think it messes with the rankings if you run your AC at 16C and post your results, but per definition t has to be that way.

[ozzie]

take australia for eg, where i am, right now its 28c in here and its autumn or fall as you guys call it, summer can and is quite often here from 35c to mid 40c, i bench with chilled and plain water, i have air too, my AC setting goes to 16c but it never gets there, even with it set at 16c, the ambient around it is too high, the best ive ever got from the air on is 22c ambient in the room, to a lot of people 22c is a normal living temp, so if the room is at 22c the water is at 22c, to me thats ambient room temp , more often than not im benching in 28-30c ambient for most of the year, even in winter where the temp may get to say 12c on a cold day outside the ambient inside is around 15 to 17c and once you start benching the cpu will raise the water temp anyway , chilled its colder yes, but depending on the bench, cpu and voltages is the temp you're gunna get for your water, chilled or otherwise

Edited March 29, 2017 by ozzie

[zeropluszero]

inb4 thread lock after argument.

[Elkim]

take australia for eg, where i am, right now its 28c in here and its autumn or fall as you guys call it, summer can and is quite often here from 35c to mid 40c, i bench with chilled and plain water, i have air too, my AC setting goes to 16c but it never gets there, even with it set at 16c, the ambient around it is too high, the best ive ever got from the air on is 22c ambient in the room, to a lot of people 22c is a normal living temp, so if the room is at 22c the water is at 22c, to me thats ambient room temp , more often than not im benching in 28-30c ambient for most of the year, even in winter where the temp may get to say 12c on a cold day outside the ambient inside is around 15 to 17c and once you start benching the cpu will raise that temp anyway on plain water, chilled its colder yes, but depending on the bench, cpu and voltages is the temp you're gunna get for your water, chilled or otherwise

 

Not sure what is your point but...

 

Yes, you're living in hot area, not good for benching, also not good for living to stay/sleep in 28°C. So yes, you have AC and cool down your house to let's say 20°C-22°C range, that's ok and that is normal. If you bench in this enviroment, it's clearly ambient.

 

But if you coold down your house/room to 16°C and you are benching in it, it's really clear what your intention is, to cool down the water in the loop and then it's chilled. Agree?

[ozzie]

you may not get my point but its pretty bloody clear to me, but 1 thing im not gunna do is get into a back and forward slingin match over it, i get your point tho, theres 2 reasons for the air to be on, 1 for comfort and 2 to help lower the condensation level from chilled water and ambient air temp, as i said theres no way i could get the room to 16c if i left the air on for 24 hrs b4 benching, the air has been on now here for 3-4 hours ,set at 16c but its still 28c in the house as i type, you get me ??? if you wanna be nitty picky about it the water that comes out of your taps over there is probably 5c to start with for eg, now is that chilled ?? or ambient lol

[Elkim]

Yup, I get your case, but there are more guys benching in same style like you, but in their case, they can get water temp with AC to 16°C or lower in small room with modular AC.

[KaRtA]

Ok, this is my take.

 

A/C in a room, no problem at all. Some of us have to deal with 25-30deg room temps with 70% humidity for 90% of the year. So having an air conditioned room to the usual competition idle temp range of 20 degree should be acceptable. I have the same problems that Ozzie pointed out.

 

This, this on the other hand is not acceptable. This is a chiller (copied from a members FB page)

 

 

This is a so called top 10 enthusiast idea of "watercooling". I pointed this picture out to the mods back last year during and after the MSI Ambient comp (what a nightmare that was) to show doubt that this particular contestant was playing by the rules. Nothing happened, then this guy finishes third and is the recipient of a 6950X, along with the other prizes. Warning bells for all when he was running 1.7v+ on "ambient" should have been a dead give away. At the time, I had tried to be diplomatic as I was in-line to benefit from his removal. This is where everything that is that league is just a damn mess. People play the rules and do well, only to continually be beaten by those that can "mask" or "interpret" the rules for their own personal gain. Ask me, I still and always will call for a ban hammer after that.

 

Lets not even bring up the other that used an Ice Bucket, then, allowed after to continue and also win that and following competitions without anyone blinking an eye. How the hell do we know that all the temps weren't faked after that, or still to this day.

 

Other examples showing up that are unclear on the cooling are still here too. Not all by enthusiasts, but still, it's just deceiving about what the cooling actually is. Especially when you know these are high-heat benchmarks and in some there is ridiculous amounts of core voltage present. If they just said or showed the full loop, there would be no problem at all.

 

SergeyR`s Geekbench3 - Multi Core score: 23951 points with a Core i7 7700K - 1.7v on water, suuuuuuuuuuure

 

jpmboy`s Geekbench3 - Multi Core score: 24324 points with a Core i7 7700K - 1.44v for 5600, 7700K on water in Geek3....pffft

 

jpmboy`s XTU score: 1947 marks with a Core i7 7700K - Same guy as above, lottery was strong here

 

kimandsally`s HWBOT x265 Benchmark - 1080p score: 44.2 fps with a Core i7 7700K - IC Diamond for cool temps my ASS

 

Could just keep going.

 

I purposely stayed out of the competitions after the MSI Competition due to being able to pick the top guys even before it began. Not particularly helpful to encouraging competition when the winners can already be picked before it starts.

 

 

Now, rant out of the way. To answer your question Elkim

 

(1) agree, cooling a room because you are in a hot climate is ambient, nothing wrong with that unless you use a cold room lol

 

(2) using an air conditioner or other method to mechanically cool your radiator or exchanger is 100% a chiller

 

(3) Open window or really cold tap water, tough one there. I would say Ambient for this league as much as it sucks for us in warmer climates. But, the way I look at the enthusiast league these days, nothing in the rankings matters anyway.

 

 

 

Sorry if I took things off on a tangent mate. And sorry to the mods for bringing that very dark time in your lives back up.

[PKBO]

Karta, fact that i have some stuff at home, doesnt mean that I have to using it. Here you can see 1.6 - 1,68 AVX 7700k load without throtling on 16C room ambient

Edited March 29, 2017 by PKBO

[PKBO]

Chip degradation with this voltage is another think, it can handle maybe few hours, but after it will degrade. Its choise between points and living CPU there.

[Leeghoofd]

Tap water is 6-8° here... still ambient not ? I did nothing extra to cool it...