HWBOT Rev.4 - The Plan.

[Ol'Bud]

 

Banned because he keeps insinuating our only aim is to make money. Sorry, I do not sacrifice this much hours a week to this project for this kind of paycheck just so people could rant on how we sell ourselves.

 

Okay. Done.

 

 

 

You all need to call a Catholic Priest to Exorcise your Demons;

You have issues.

[FACE411]

Duke;71438']are you going to discuss or troll. nub.

 

no no, let him do his thing... it's hilarious.

[FACE411]

It's chew* and the astrisk means there's more to the name aka chewonthis another word for Bite me.

 

Want to make verbal attacks do so in person, not over a keyboard cowboy

 

hehe, be careful.... I don't think you want that to happen.

[BenchZowner]

Bill, for the love of all things overclocking please stop hyping up whatever dirt you have and just spill it. First you claim you were waiting on hosting. Did you know Blogger and Wordpress offer free hosting? I just spent 30 seconds registering http://benchzowner.blogspot.com/ for you and another 10 minutes populating it with creative content I feel is similar to what you'll be posting. Feel free to contact me for the login credentials.

 

That's so nice of you.

Reflects your personality, ethics and character PERFECTLY.

 

When you grow up shoot me a PM.

[Hollywood]

Bill, for the love of all things overclocking please stop hyping up whatever dirt you have and just spill it. First you claim you were waiting on hosting. Did you know Blogger and Wordpress offer free hosting? I just spent 30 seconds registering http://benchzowner.blogspot.com/ for you and another 10 minutes populating it with creative content I feel is similar to what you'll be posting. Feel free to contact me for the login credentials.

 

Sign! If someone has information about things goin wrong, make it public!

Even if it's just the beginning. C'mon, bring it on!

 

You have no clue of what the financial status of HWBOT is, so this is out of line.

 

Sure, we don't! How could we? I realy would like to know how much money is needed to keep hwbot up und running. Must be a huge amount if you need the MFC's to cover the costs.

[websmile]

@ Massman- To emphasize what I said before- you won´t stop hardware sharing with this new revision- as long as individual rankings and hardware masters are in the game, some in the hunt for sponsors or glory-, this won´t help- make the punishment harder, for the individual cheater, and if he is long enough on tje team, punish the team, but please don´t demotivate alot of benchers who are proud to contribute their often few points to their teams, in whichs forum they found an Inet home- the new proposal of the HWBoints league is a step into the right direction, but having discussed in a lot of forums I found more than 90 percent, no matter how big or small the teams are, think the actual ranking system is OK and that they think ban the cheaters if you get them but don´t destroy aworking system because of some inscrupulous idiots who should be ashamed

the hunt will go on- as said that a lot of hardware wiöll be sent to the LN2 guys by the same teams which work unfair now just to climb up the rankings- you will just exchange one evil with another

Sorry for the long comment, I´m also tired, but I hope you understand what I intended to say;)

Best regards

Edited September 19, 2010 by websmile

[[GF]Duke]

It's chew* and the astrisk means there's more to the name aka chewonthis another word for Bite me.

 

Want to make verbal attacks do so in person, not over a keyboard cowboy

 

i know you.

[Massman]

That's so nice of you.

Reflects your personality, ethics and character PERFECTLY.

 

When you grow up shoot me a PM.

 

Awaiting October 2nd. Untill then: bye!

[FACE411]

--sigh--

 

Massman, I hate to ask, but...

 

I do not post in these forums often, came in, posted a valid and educated opinion, and chew* comes along and trolls me right up, throws out crazy accusations, and eventually picks a fight.... way out of line, way off topic... way uncalled for.

 

Please do something about this fool.

 

Thanks, man.

[Dahaka]

Okay, I'm done.

 

I'll listen to criticism, but not blatant "you do it all for the money"-accusations. You have no clue of what the financial status of HWBOT is, so this is out of line.

 

See you next week.

 

This history is exactly the same history from CHW.NET:

 

" we don't do ir for the money "

" Yes, you do it "

" ok, you're banned "

 

Weeks or months later..." Hi guys, CHW.NET have been SOLD, thank you very much ".

 

Sorry, but this is what i see and a lot of others user too, their post are the prove.

[Predator]

i guess no one can say rev4 would be boring , if there are going to be fights, i want them in Full-HD (j/k)

 

come on guys, cut some slack on Massman, i say give the new idea a chance, i think rbuass said run a pararell beta to see the how it goes, and then we all can decide what's the best for the community

[Bones]

Please understand these are my thoughts and mine alone.

 

This is a really complicated issue and frankly the posts in this thread have been all over the place on the topic but with good reason. All I'm doing is trying to make some sense of it within myself and expesssing that. Every member here stands to be impacted by what goes on in some way and yes, I'm included in that too so I'm saying what's on my mind about it all.

 

The recent deal about hardware sharing is a real issue and I have to agree this isn't good for the sport. Cheating to be the best doesn't prove anything since those who do cheat either do it because dishonesty is in their nature or they've already tried and failed so they must resort to cheating = lack of skill.

Overall this amounts to ego and some do have such a thing going on unfortunately. However if one were to use this issue as a vehicle to justify changes, we know it's fraught with the temptation to twist the issue to the point of achieving a different, more agenda-like outcome. History is full of examples of such a thing happening and it always results in the same thing - Disaster.

 

We've also heard the deal about sponsorships. With what I'm seeing, here is my honest thoughts on it.

Please note I honestly believe the hardware sharing issue is part of what's being used to justify the changes the way they are being done for the following reasons.

 

The big boys can post results that makes the new hardware look good and that's fine for making sales of the new stuff. It's called "Marketing" and along with great results, they also write reviews for the sponsors.

I have to agree with Massman on one thing - Maintaining a busy site like that is expensive but that's where the corporate $$'s come in to make up the difference. You can bet if there is an investment made from sponsors, they'll be expecting something in return for it. If they should get little or nothing back, the plug will be pulled and that's it. I've seen references to the financial status of the bot posted and with that as an issue, it's no suprise to me we're seeing these changes being made and believe this is why and believe it's not voluntary on the staff's part.

 

In short, the sponsors have "Bought" a site to showcase their latest hardware and folks like us will only serve to mess things up to the point of the occasional embarasment of said hardware. If you guys will recall, Myself with another HWbot member (Placid) made some of the later MB's with better chipsets look bad with our older Socket 754 boards in terms of MHz achived. The reference clock list shows the two of us ahead of several newer chipset entries with varied namebrands shown for these and many are actually DDR2 setups.

 

I've nothing but respect for Placid, he got the job done with skill and was respectful to myself and all involved. Just so happens he got lucky enough to get a validation file where I coudn't with that MHz, so there you go. He's ranked for good reason and proves it everyday as the rest of us strive to do.

 

On this note:

 

Some of us are actually dangerous to the marketing goals of the sponsors involved. I can promise you if I had access to this kind of hardware, I'd be embarrasing alot of those big boys and yes, I have beaten more than one with lesser cooling methods to boot. Kick out those who could be a threat to your business goals and lock the ones you want in - That's the name of the game.

As to why I don't do more than I do already, it's called "Making a living" and I don't have the time to dedicate to OC'ing as many others do but that could change one day. If I had the same deal these guys have, I could also get some great results too and have the time to do it with, no prob.

 

Also remember established names in the OC'ing world will sell hardware since it is considered a sport. Look at the DICE pots Kingpin is selling as an example. Many want these because it's a kingpin pot and the name of a known high profile OC'er in itself will help sell the product. You associate a well known name with a product, post some great results and you get $$'s is how it works. Not saying Kingpin doesn't know his stuff (He obviously does and deserves his reputation), I'm saying with a known name associated with a given product, it's the name recognition linking it to performance.

Everyone wants to be the next Jimmy Johnson in racing or Michael Jordan in basketball so why not add their name to a product line or at least associate the name in some way? It will sell stuff and the marketing guys know this, otherwise they woudn't do it in the first place and have been doing that for years now so it must work.

 

Now, the rest of us aren't known on the stage of OC'ing as being tops so it looks we're to be disposed of. Rev 3 was a step in this direction and since we along with many others didn't get out, now it's on to step 4 and I believe this is being mandated by the big $$ behind the scenes, the bot's staff fighting it of course but in the end, we know who'll win out when the chips are down.

 

Like it or not that's how it's looking to me.

 

These sponsors also know most teams cannot do an OC'ing session and the big boys that's established themselves are the names to rely on and I'd be willing to bet many are already on corporate sponsored under-the-table payrolls. They don't need to worry about a 9 to 5 since OC'ing IS their job. Call them reviewers or what you'd like.

Just another way to eliminate us that could be trouble to their marketing goals.

 

Sorry dudes, but it is about money in the end - Maybe not so much for the site and folks involved with the site itself but definitely for the site's sponsors. I've been on both sides of the corporate world, having seen things everyday within my own place of work, talked and seen things from the sales guys, spoken with the actual CEO's and whatnot, it all adds up to the same basic pattern.

I blame the names of the corporations shown on the bot's frontpage for this, not the bot's staff. In fact I know it can't be fun for them either.

 

That's my personal take on it guys.

[FACE411]

I have picked no fight, I offered to chat in person with any one that chooses to do so and offered a little background for anyone choosing to do so, possibly so they smarten up and think about it.

 

I also didn't bad mouth anyone or make direct comments about anyone.

 

Crazy accusations? nope

 

Factual accusations? Yep.

 

At any team in particular? Nope.

 

I can't help it if people feel guilty.

 

Yeah, whatever buddy... I know for a fact that you are captain troll at xs, and you do fairly well here, too.. That is a factual accusation.

 

Now, when you come on with a response quoting me and tell me what you did, you are trolling for a defensive response. I do not appreciate your forum manner, sir, and I am afraid I will no longer continue this back and forth with you, since you are incapable of having a valid thoughtful discussion.

 

effing troll.

[[GF]Duke]

I can't wait.

Edited September 19, 2010 by [GF]Duke

[SF3D]

Guys, calm down a bit! Don't take it that personal level in here.

 

Thanks!

[chew*]

Duke;71458']I can't wait for the CES.

 

Quoted to add premeditation to the charges we both incur

 

Why wait for a public event where i have to be on my best behavior. It's quite obvious when I am there for a manufacturer I can't mix it with personal problems

 

Convenient for you I guess.

 

Conveneint for me I can always go to your house if your afraid to come to mine.

Edited September 19, 2010 by chew*

[Kal-EL]

Cut the crap guys, this shit is really stupid and un-needed.

 

You know you should talk to KAL.

 

He is a officer of the law. When someone gets defensive and goes into denial immediately guess what a trained cop knows?

 

 

I'm retired now, free at last

Edited September 19, 2010 by HawaiiSuperman

[FACE411]

Guys, calm down a bit! Don't take it that personal level in here.

 

Thanks!

 

 

sorry man... I'll play nice.

Edited September 19, 2010 by FACE411

[Leeghoofd]

So you banned Mr.Scott

For being direct and to the point on a discussion thread?

 

That is PERVERSE!

 

How about being a pain in the B U T T. Zero constructive items to be discovered in his last posts. I only read accusations concerning money. This directed to a person that spends more than 12 hours a day working for a fee you won't come out of the door for !!!

 

Either you try to make it better and stop nagging about subjects that got zero to do with OC'ing.

 

If you think they sold out, leave the room. I'll be happy to show you the exit and don't come back no more...

 

I'll be here with my meazle hardware points for my TEAM. Globals I have not

much too give... who freaking cares... as long as you have fun... If you drop out for a new change, I wonder how are you ever gonna deal with real life ?

 

Analysing stuff, with my one braincell it seems OCing is a full time for job for some.

 

GET A GRIP !!

[George_o/c]

I honestly feel bad for HWBOT staff and the position they find themselves now. Some of you guys out there seem like you don't even remotely understand the effort and time the guys put in HWBOT, so that you can have fun, browse through different hardware statistics, entertain yourselves, compete against others and have the chance to also compete in various interesting overclocking competitions organized by both HWBOT and manufacturers. On top of that, you are using HWBOT for free, however you still throw disrepectful accusations all over the place! Being rude and ignorant won't help at all the situation!

 

Anyway I'm not happy about that specific rule either (as I stated in previous post of mine), but I stay open-minded and will definitely give it a try Maybe it's for the best, who knows.

[vento1]

I think the idea of having a seperate area for team captains and staff to discuss the issues would be far better than this enormous thread, at least it might stay on topic.

I also like the idea of giving a percentage score for the top 3 or 5 in a team with the same hardware.

[euklidis]

I personally disagree with the "only best submission count toward team". Most of us starting ocing cause we felt like we were contributing to something bigger, even with the 2 points we could offer to our teams. That made as try to get better and better. Now we will not have this kind of feeling offered to the new members. this fume is killing OC. Do you want this community ti get bigger and stronger or you just want to destroy it. Give reason to newbies to keep Overclocking... let them have the feeling of contribution to a team.

[Splave]

Wow what a pile of shit this thread has turned into!

 

This thread is sickening and accomplishing nothing, I agree with rbuass we need to see the revision in action before ultimate claims can be made, is there any chance of this happening mass ?

 

Until then I remain confused

[SoF]

I think I've read the first 10 and last 5 pages - let's see if I can make some points

 

FIRST:

- Money accusations: all people going in that direction have never tried to run a big site with thousands of vistors a day and loads of traffic...people do you think servers are paying themselves? do you think the time and manpower behind hwbot shines out of the sky for free? And do you think this should be a point to be discussed here? NO!

 

2nd:

The new team point rule let's the honest benchers and teams down the cheaters and sharers ruined a good competition between teams. the idea with meeting up more frequently etc. are all ok but in the end the team ranking isn't a team ranking anymore but a reflection of some oc-individuals within a certain team. currently it is a good reflection of size, activity, variety and team-work what is how it should be and stay.

3rd - EL / Xtreme / pro-mfc league:

or whatever it will be called - fine for me as long as people that do reviews and might keep one or two boards a year for the work they do will not count into a pro / mfc league (as stated: "Free samples are not forbidden; manufacturers are asked, however, to focus on the UFL"). think it is a needed change. EL isn't something for me, do whatever you want hint: setup pics mandatory is imo useless - you can fake that so easy, just more work for the honest bencher and the servers if you ask me.

4th - hwboints:

I still think 3D WR bonus extends the leads of thoose who are already quite in front - for pro league this is totally fine. Would it be an option to remove it in "normal" league to rule out the factor money a bit more. Making single card ranking more weightfull was a good start (after getting used to it) why not rounding it up in Rev4? for EL it is planned but consider doing it for XOL also

I do not really like the idea of competition points - in smaller countries maybe there are no qualifiers, people have not the right hardware to compete in qualifiers etc. Still I like the idea giving thoose overclockers a bonus somehow for spending a lot time for those competitions and making loooong travels. It's like "oh no not another league" but a live competition league where a win gains you certain points, runner up get also points would be a way to give live competitions their place. elmor would have his place there and a lot nordic flags for sure

 

different points from the presentation:

 

Engineering samples debate: Let's make a cut - old scores stay where they are but new ES genereations are not allowed anymore. How many scores must be checked when you do it for all old results and how many people would be angry about loosing points another time. For the future everybody knows and can act accordingly

 

Split-up between extreme and enthusiast teams?

Currently: yes, but technical complications

Specific Hardware Masters-like league for teams?

Currently: no, just show as extra information

Allow UFL-members to support a team? Hardware Masters ranking

Achievement Masters ranking

Competition Masters ranking

 

I would say things like that would overcomplicate things. specially for the first three I would say no. And so I come to my final words: don't make it too complicated, keep it as simple as possible, that's why most people like hwbot. some new leagues ok but I hardly can remember friends caring about achievements and so - sometimes less is more

 

Anyway good luck with the new revision, if you make some points right it could be a good one but with some wrong descision it can also fail

 

best regards

SoF

[Leeghoofd]

I personally disagree with the "only best submission count toward team". Most of us starting ocing cause we felt like we were contributing to something bigger, even with the 2 points we could offer to our teams. That made as try to get better and better. Now we will not have this kind of feeling offered to the new members. this fume is killing OC. Do you want this community ti get bigger and stronger or you just want to destroy it. Give reason to newbies to keep Overclocking... let them have the feeling of contribution to a team.

 

Before you give a team a chance HWbot has to get some sort of control over the dirty ones... Yep it's because of the GREED of some individuals that these strict measures are upon us...

 

But...

 

You can perfectly bench for a team and up your Hardware points, learn stuff and make a lot of new friends.

 

Sorry mate but them 2 points ain't gonna make much difference do they ? If you have a good team spirit, they all will be happy you are on the team, contributing or not...

 

Let me tell you I started solo, then benched with I4 memory team ( as I was a spammer on their forum) I learned some cool stuff from big shots like Dino, Eva2000 and co (no not from Angelo ). Then I wanted to move up and wanted to go subzero as I was stuck with my watercooled setups.

 

I found my home at the OC Team BE, not because they were highly ranked, but just that the persons in the team could teach me a lot and were living in my country. Secondly they were nice blokes too ( ugly like me, but nice )

 

Now I haven't contributed much to the team total, as I always work with 2-3 points, but they don't care. It's all about the Spirit of OCing... and I bench whatever I can get my hands on : low end GPU/CPU's, laptops, whatever it will be... It's exploring the hardware that makes it fun for me... the points are just a bonus...

 

Seems everybody lost the concept and just benches to be in top position...

 

Why don't you continue to improve yourself. At one day you will have to ditch watercooling or such to contribute more points to your team...

This is called evolution or progression...And even if it doesn't contribute to the team, then it still should be fun !!!

 

Don't give up on it yet, see how it evolves... believe me it won't destroy the scene. With some refinements it will only make it more competitive...

Edited September 19, 2010 by Leeghoofd