Why there is a fee in the Wild Card contest

[Massman]

Hey guys,

 

I was asked by some people to detail as to why there is a fee in the Wild Card contest as there is quite an uproar about it. I understand why some people could be upset about the fee.

 

When discussing the World Championship with the rest of the staff, it was clear that it would be good to host an online qualifier. Then, the Championship wouldn't be limited to people who can attend World Tour events. Our problem is that this could get very expensive in flights and blow a hole in our budgets. We tried looking for partners, but as you all know the budgets for extreme overclocking have shrunk dramatically in the past couple years. Our alternative is to charge an entry fee to hopefully cover the flight and accommodation of the winner. (worst case it still blows a hole in the budget)

 

In exchange, we contacted partners to provide some nice prizes for the top spots. Also, we ensured that the hardware limitations are restricted to affordable hardware. This lowers the overall cost of participation (compared to other competitions).

 

If you find the entry fee unacceptable and choose not to participate, that is of course up to you. We organized over 100 competitions free entry this year and will continue to do so in the future.

 

Have a nice day all

[JunkDogg]

It all makes a bit more sense now. Flights and Accommodation is a big outlay and I personally can fully understand the reason to try and re-coup some/all of those costs.

 

I think the way it was rolled out is what has caused the uproar mate. The prize page and news post only states a seat at the competition. If it is clearly stated that the prize includes flights etc people might not be so quick to fly off the handle.

 

Just my thoughts.

[speed.fastest]

This is good to catch the ticket, sadly i dont had money for now. Good luck everyone!

[Johan45]

Also there was an entry fee for the World tour stops, no? Wouldn't be fair to the participants to give up a "free" spot.

[Wizerty]

Also there was an entry fee for the World tour stops, no? Wouldn't be fair to the participants to give up a "free" spot.

WT fees was for live ticket + free LN2

Here it's "only" to join a contest.

 

I drove 1000km to join France WT and fly 20.000km to join TW WT and paid twice 100e . Should I pay again for online ticket Johan ?

Maybe it can be "free" for people who already paid WT ticket or not (I'm not talking for myself, I won't join it even if it's free, too busy, it's only to show you it's not that easy)

 

****

 

Having some maths :

Let say 20people with 50euros ticket = 1000euros

If it's a german (Dancop ? ) that win this ticket. then flights fee will be f*** low and accommodation will be easily cover right ?

In this case extra money will be refund ?

For example 300e hotel + 100e flying ticket -> 1000 - 400e . will you refund 30euros to the 20 member ?

 

I know, it could be 2 people that join wild card and an asian guy that win with 1000e flying ticket

 

****

My feeling : it's a bad move to add fee to join an offline contest.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Wizerty

[CAxVIPER]

WT fees was for live ticket + free LN2

Here it's "only" to join a contest.

 

I drove 1000km to join France WT and fly 20.000km to join TW WT and paid twice 100e . Should I pay again for online ticket Johan ?

Maybe it can be "free" for people who already paid WT ticket or not (I'm not talking for myself, I won't join it even if it's free, too busy, it's only to show you it's not that easy)

 

****

 

Having some maths :

Let say 20people with 50euros ticket = 1000euros

If it's a german (Dancop ? ) that win this ticket. then flights fee will be f*** low and accommodation will be easily cover right ?

In this case extra money will be refund ?

For example 300e hotel + 100e flying ticket -> 1000 - 400e . will you refund 30euros to the 20 member ?

 

I know, it could be 2 people that join wild card and an asian guy that win with 1000e flying ticket

 

****

My feeling : it's a bad move to add fee to join an offline contest.

 

I only agree to there being no fee if they remove all the prizes except a pass to champ(excludes airfare and hotel). Flying someone from the US anywhere but the US easily cost $1000 and probably more.

 

If someone wins and it doesn't cost them everything I would rather see it go toward another event to provide more prizes than be refunded. I don't know any sport where you have to pay an entry fee that refunds it if you don't win and they don't spend all the money. How do you determine who gets a refund and who gets screwed over?

[Rauf]

I say more of this in the future. If vendors don't hold xoc competitions, let's do it ourselves. Get the sponsors we can, but the real prize will be the entry fee divided between the winners.

[newlife]

I quite like this idea as flights is the biggest killer for me to go overseas

 

Oh and if you competed in a world tour event this year, you should be disallowed to compete as isn't the whole idea to give a chance to those who wouldn't otherwise take part

[Johan45]

WT fees was for live ticket + free LN2

Here it's "only" to join a contest.

 

I drove 1000km to join France WT and fly 20.000km to join TW WT and paid twice 100e . Should I pay again for online ticket Johan ?

Maybe it can be "free" for people who already paid WT ticket or not (I'm not talking for myself, I won't join it even if it's free, too busy, it's only to show you it's not that easy)

 

****

 

Having some maths :

Let say 20people with 50euros ticket = 1000euros

If it's a german (Dancop ? ) that win this ticket. then flights fee will be f*** low and accommodation will be easily cover right ?

In this case extra money will be refund ?

For example 300e hotel + 100e flying ticket -> 1000 - 400e . will you refund 30euros to the 20 member ?

 

I know, it could be 2 people that join wild card and an asian guy that win with 1000e flying ticket

 

****

My feeling : it's a bad move to add fee to join an offline contest.

 

I think it really is that simple, I went to the WT in montreal last year and yes it cost me more than the 50euro entry fee that is charged for this on-line event. I'm not bitter about it though and am grateful for an opportunity to compete again this year since I was unable to attend the NA stop do to health reasons.

I can't tell if you think they should be charging more or not at all but either way 1000 euro wouldn't go far covering accommodation in Berlin of that I'm pretty certain.

It comes down to choices and opportunities. You chose to drive 1000km or fly 20,000km to attend and seems to me you're pretty lucky to have the money and time to do so but it was still your choice. Just as it is now your choice whether or not to pony up another 50euro for a third chance.

[mickulty]

I'll be honest, my initial reaction when I heard about this was pretty bad. But it's easy to forget that hwbot isn't made of money, I think it's pretty clear the only way this wildcard contest in the form it's in can even exist is with an entry fee. The alternative would be requiring the winner to cover flights+accommodation in order to claim their prize which would probably make it pretty unattractive to anyone not european.

 

I reckon the main reason people have reacted badly is that whereas for the other events you're buying an LN2 supply and live OCTV tickets, if you don't place in this competition you've got precisely nothing for your €50. In the future it might be sensible to try and make sure every entrant gets something for their entry fee - an extreme example might be to source hardware that's in some way special (eg oc vbios from a gpu manufacturer, ln2 prebinned from caseking, EVC from elmor) and have a much higher entry fee but one which buys you some of the hardware as well. Or just make everyone exclusive t-shirts

[gavbon]

I'll be honest, my initial reaction when I heard about this was pretty bad. But it's easy to forget that hwbot isn't made of money, I think it's pretty clear the only way this wildcard contest in the form it's in can even exist is with an entry fee. The alternative would be requiring the winner to cover flights+accommodation in order to claim their prize which would probably make it pretty unattractive to anyone not european.

 

I reckon the main reason people have reacted badly is that whereas for the other events you're buying an LN2 supply and live OCTV tickets, if you don't place in this competition you've got precisely nothing for your €50. In the future it might be sensible to try and make sure every entrant gets something for their entry fee - an extreme example might be to source hardware that's in some way special (eg oc vbios from a gpu manufacturer, ln2 prebinned from caseking, EVC from elmor) and have a much higher entry fee but one which buys you some of the hardware as well. Or just make everyone exclusive t-shirts

 

Pretty much this!

 

If you're not entirely confident that you're even going to come close to the competition entering, the entry fee is a little off-putting. Obviously I can understand why there is one and it's 100% fair enough, but if 50 people enter, only 3 are walking away with something.

 

Even things like merch such as t-shirts, or even a custom HWBot 2016 World Tour t-shirt would do me

[Lucky_n00b]

I reckon the main reason people have reacted badly is that whereas for the other events you're buying an LN2 supply and live OCTV tickets, if you don't place in this competition you've got precisely nothing for your €50

 

 

If you're not entirely confident that you're even going to come close to the competition entering, the entry fee is a little off-putting. Obviously I can understand why there is one and it's 100% fair enough, but if 50 people enter, only 3 are walking away with something.

 

 

This, 100% agree.

 

Counting the hardware cost needed to join that qualifier (it's pretty OK, but you still need good amount of money if you want to bin them),

that added 50 EUR might've been too much for some if they knew there's little chance they're getting anything out of that qualifier (especially if they're against high-ranked 'monsters' that might be competing like Dancop and Rauf :p )

 

The Lucky Draw streacom benchtable is nice, but it might be a bit nicer if the prize for tournament with an entry fee like this spread out a bit (example: 4th to 5th place might be getting their entry fee back?). Or like above suggestion, maybe give a additional merchandise, T-Shirt, or something else.

 

As a crazy idea though, IF there's an option like

A) 50 EUR 'normal' entry Fee

B) 200 EUR entry fee , but we get i3-6320 binned to 1.2V Cinebench R15 4.5Ghz + shipping

 

I'd take option B any day

 

Oh well, I wanted a chance of doing WT qualifier since I missed previous two chances (WT Computex and WT Indonesia),

so even though I knew I would most likely be bottom tier in this competition, I still paid the ticket because I appreciate the chance

[gavbon]

This, 100% agree.

 

Counting the hardware cost needed to join that qualifier (it's pretty OK, but you still need good amount of money if you want to bin them),

that added 50 EUR might've been too much for some if they knew there's little chance they're getting anything out of that qualifier (especially if they're against high-ranked 'monsters' that might be competing like Dancop and Rauf :p )

 

The Lucky Draw streacom benchtable is nice, but it might be a bit nicer if the prize for tournament with an entry fee like this spread out a bit (example: 4th to 5th place might be getting their entry fee back?). Or like above suggestion, maybe give a additional merchandise, T-Shirt, or something else.

 

As a crazy idea though, IF there's an option like

A) 50 EUR 'normal' entry Fee

B) 200 EUR entry fee , but we get i3-6320 binned to 1.2V Cinebench R15 4.5Ghz + shipping

 

I'd take option B any day

 

Oh well, I wanted a chance of doing WT qualifier since I missed previous two chances (WT Computex and WT Indonesia),

so even though I knew I would most likely be bottom tier in this competition, I still paid the ticket because I appreciate the chance

 

I am absolutely dreading to compete against Dancop, Rauf, Luumi and Nickolp1975...let alone the rest of the top guys who will be entering. Those with already rock solid i3 6320's will have a good footing, but those who can afford to bin a few RX 460s will certainly be even stronger!

 

The things I would do for the benchtable though, I would probably get arrested

[Wizerty]

.... I don't know any sport where you have to pay an entry fee that refunds it if you don't win and they don't spend all the money. How do you determine who gets a refund and who gets screwed over?

They said "it's not to earn money BUT to pay ticket". Seems legit to me to use money to buy a ticket and not to earn money on it. I didn't said to choose who need to be refund but to refund everyone.

If they collect 3000$ and use only 2000$ then split 1000$ to every user that join. At least you know that the fees asked to paid a ticket was used to buy a ticket and not to buy massman Mercedes (joke ).

OR alternative, give extra 1000e to N°3 (200$) ,4 (150$) ,5(100$) ,6(80$).....

 

----

 

I don't know any sport where you have to paid 50 euros for nothing "real".

 

I mean :

if you need to buy a 460 ok, then you can play with it, use it for gaming, or sell it afterward...

if you need to pay 100euros for a 1y subscription to you footbal club, gym... then it give you acces to material, training....

if you need to buy LN2, then you can have some fun...

 

Here (for me) it's different, you pay 50e for "nothing". You can do XOC without it. It won't help you, I won't give you advice or access to material / extra content.

 

Still my personal feeling but XOC is already expensive for "new" user, and MANY of them stay on ambient league because it's easier or they can win more attractive price.... If you add fee for XOC contest, then i'm 99% sure that you kill XOC (at least for those who ar not yet Xocer).

 

I'm not an "Hwbot hater", neither a guy that think Hwbot main purpose it to make money. But still, I don't like the idea to pay to join a contest. Maybe sell the 6950x and make it free for everyone

[Alex@ro]

Overclocking in general is an expensive hobby,my personal estimation for this contest is at least 2000E invested. Quick example i would buy 7-8 cards for binning and at least 5 cpu's plus the ln2 cost. Granted,you will return some cards and cpu's after but you still have to invest that liquid cash at once.I have mixed feelings about the entry fee but for instance there should be :

-free entrance if you already payed twice (e.g Poitiers and Taipei)

-previous winners of tickets should be excluded from compeitition,no sense to let these participate for the side-prizes.

[websmile]

They said "it's not to earn money BUT to pay ticket". Seems legit to me to use money to buy a ticket and not to earn money on it. I didn't said to choose who need to be refund but to refund everyone.

 

So we refund everyone including people who won a couple of thousand euros as prize or hardware much more worth than what they paid as entry and ask them to return what they won with given reason it is your bad you were that good that you won and we need to refund people who did not as good as you? You really know how to make friends - good luck at explaining this to the guys^^

If they collect 3000$ and use only 2000$ then split 1000$ to every user that join. At least you know that the fees asked to paid a ticket was used to buy a ticket and not to buy massman Mercedes (joke ).

OR alternative, give extra 1000e to N°3 (200$) ,4 (150$) ,5(100$) ,6(80$).....

 

If the fee is not enough, do we charge participants with extra 100 euros each to cover cost according to your logic?^^ In the unlikely case there will be an euro left it will go to hwbot causes and not to make anyone at hwbot get a bonus^^

 

 

----

I don't know any sport where you have to paid 50 euros for nothing "real".

 

I mean :

if you need to buy a 460 ok, then you can play with it, use it for gaming, or sell it afterward...

if you need to pay 100euros for a 1y subscription to you footbal club, gym... then it give you acces to material, training....

if you need to buy LN2, then you can have some fun...

 

Here (for me) it's different, you pay 50e for "nothing". You can do XOC without it. It won't help you, I won't give you advice or access to material / extra content.

 

Still my personal feeling but XOC is already expensive for "new" user, and MANY of them stay on ambient league because it's easier or they can win more attractive price.... If you add fee for XOC contest, then i'm 99% sure that you kill XOC (at least for those who ar not yet Xocer).

 

I'm not an "Hwbot hater", neither a guy that think Hwbot main purpose it to make money. But still, I don't like the idea to pay to join a contest. Maybe sell the 6950x and make it free for everyone

 

There are a lots of sports events you have to pay an entry fee to join, marathons, poker tournaments, even at some football tournaments and many other at least in germany, this is used when entrance for spectators is free and sponsoring doesn´t cover expected costs. I f you think the competition and prices is not worth the entrance, no need to participate. No one is charged any fee for joining hwbot, no one is charged a fee for using hwbot and no one is charged for services as well. This is a competition that is eligible but not mandatory. I abolutely accept that you do not like the entrance fee, if hwbot would have found another way to cover the cost, I would have preferred this as well. On selling the 6950 to cover cost, do you ask MSI for hardware you do not use with the argumentation you will not give them anything back (publicity by future results, mentioning, etc) but will sell it to cover your cost for LN2 and your valuable time? I don´t think they would appreciate this much, and if sponsors would have wanted to support the cause financially only, they would have sent a cheque and not hardware This is my personal opinion on this, no need to agree for you because I also see some point at your views, I just think that there are always two angles to see things, maybe it shows a different perspective

 

P.S. Alex, we cannot give free entrance, then we would have to make a general ticket in my opinion that makes you eligible for all tour events of one season in the future at a much higher price. If this is wanted it might be worth discussing it, like a one event ticket only and a general "one year ticket" for people who plan to visit all or at least several events. I am not sure this would make sense though, but I am open to propoals like we all are at hwbot if there is demand.

On the exclusion of stage winners, this might have been an option, it was decided differently. Might change in the future, this is first event for a wild card at world tour, we all need to learn from experience and feedback

Edited September 21, 2016 by websmile

[newlife]

For example the mountain bike race I'll be taking part in has a entry fee as does pretty much any sport in Australia including pro

[Rauf]

I don't understand why some people expect everything to be free and/or nonprofit. This is not a charity organization. I think the competitive part of hwbot might benefit from fees in more than one area.

[gavbon]

I will say this though, people already with tickets to the final should be excluded from competing (they are already in the tournament so why would there be any reason for them to enter this)

 

Let the rest of us juke it out

[Gunslinger]

when did overclockers become such cheapasses?

[nickolp1974]

when did overclockers become such cheapasses?

 

Since Nvidia started charging the earth for there VGA's!

 

In all seriousness, i don't have a problem with a fee for any contest, it wont be cheap for tickets, hotel etc unless its Dan then a €5 bus ticket will do!!

But maybe to make it more appealing in future, say for instance intel are providing the 6950X, you could of asked for 3 prizes of a 7700k(or whatever the name) and then the other ones, basically lower in value stuff but more of it.

Also i cant off the top of my head remeber all the rules so this comment maybe totally irrelevent, if pepole are having to pay then so should there hardware be, in otherwords no vendor cherry picked hardware should be allowed.

[Splave]

This, 100% agree.

 

Counting the hardware cost needed to join that qualifier (it's pretty OK, but you still need good amount of money if you want to bin them),

that added 50 EUR might've been too much for some if they knew there's little chance they're getting anything out of that qualifier (especially if they're against high-ranked 'monsters' that might be competing like Dancop and Rauf :p )

 

The Lucky Draw streacom benchtable is nice, but it might be a bit nicer if the prize for tournament with an entry fee like this spread out a bit (example: 4th to 5th place might be getting their entry fee back?). Or like above suggestion, maybe give a additional merchandise, T-Shirt, or something else.

 

As a crazy idea though, IF there's an option like

A) 50 EUR 'normal' entry Fee

B) 200 EUR entry fee , but we get i3-6320 binned to 1.2V Cinebench R15 4.5Ghz + shipping

 

I'd take option B any day

 

Oh well, I wanted a chance of doing WT qualifier since I missed previous two chances (WT Computex and WT Indonesia),

so even though I knew I would most likely be bottom tier in this competition, I still paid the ticket because I appreciate the chance

Time to call caseking