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Only had a chance to skim through the thread.

Whilst I don't mind the idea of career vs 'current' ranking, but why have comp points in both? Comp points in current and no comp points in career makes more sense to me as comps are much more optional in my mind.

As others have said, but combining points (top 30 global+hw) you naturally bias it towards those with higher end hw, that was the best thing about the seperate hw and global points adding to your total.

 

Edit: Also while I don't really pay attention to team rankings, getting rid of the 'power points' (which was basically just the highest score with certain hw on a team counts?) would massively change the rankings, once again to teams with more high end hw.

Edited by GeorgeStorm
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On 11/1/2018 at 8:56 AM, richba5tard said:

Screen Shot 2018-10-31 at 22.55.18.png

 

Is that how Rev 8 will look 2019?

Wow. I know every revision members efforts/ points have taken a hit & every time this tiny Warp9 Team has kept on trying.

 Those stats right there suck ass. I'll pull the plug OC finsihed 

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3 minutes ago, avalanche said:

http://uat.hwbot.org/league/worldwide?offset=-4&team=warp9_systems

I see my Captain Mr Paco who has thousands of cups drop, other legend overclockers on the team drop level in team WTF O.o

Efforts diminished minimalist steered. Best f'n overclockers of their time. Weighed less I'm guessing on older hardware 

I believe it looks even worse than it is as that ranking is based on the 'season' ranking, and so only subs from this year go towards it.

If the two rankings go ahead, then on all the rankings (national, team etc) there should be the option to easily switch between career and season.

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Your a reasonable guy. I've chatted to you before.

My team guys some old have been HWbot from the beginning. Alot of revisions they've seen.

Don't FUCK this up. Look at those bloody cups & all the time and effort. Ales on my team, he's sunk a bloody lot of time in, plenty of them have.

It's eroding of my teams efforts & they work bloody hard @ scores

p89q9b97mv5a97f6g.jpg

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1 hour ago, avalanche said:

Is that how Rev 8 will look 2019?

Wow. I know every revision members efforts/ points have taken a hit & every time this tiny Warp9 Team has kept on trying.

 Those stats right there suck ass. I'll pull the plug OC finsihed 

Stand in line brother :)

Queue please. Exit doors are NOT that big.

 

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3 hours ago, GeorgeStorm said:

Only had a chance to skim through the thread.

Whilst I don't mind the idea of career vs 'current' ranking, but why have comp points in both? Comp points in current and no comp points in career makes more sense to me as comps are much more optional in my mind.

As others have said, but combining points (top 30 global+hw) you naturally bias it towards those with higher end hw, that was the best thing about the seperate hw and global points adding to your total.

 

Edit: Also while I don't really pay attention to team rankings, getting rid of the 'power points' (which was basically just the highest score with certain hw on a team counts?) would massively change the rankings, once again to teams with more high end hw.

I agree with both statements above. Annual comps = annual reset comp points. And George explained why I enjoy the seperate hwpoint subs.

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13 hours ago, Splave said:

-Maybe an unpopular opinion but 3dmark03 needs a nerf. Why is it 67 points vs 50s anyways?

I agree, this bench is way overvalued, especially when it's ridiculously easy to essentially type in your score. Nothing this easy to cheat should have points.

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So looking here and now I see why everyone hates this rev, it's because r/overclocking would rise to 2nd overall ;) 

JK, it's because this rev is shit and would make all efforts wasted. I don't have fun on most modern hw, it's just not that interesting compared to lots of older hw. That's also why I avoid most comps except team comps, since they're just not fun for me. If the changes in rev 8 are made it would very well kill the competive side of the hobby for me. I would still probably continue to overclock but I would feel less of a need to participate on the bot. 

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I would like this way better if competitions like Team Cup or OSIBS would give Points as well, the way it is now only the sponsored ones and the challenger series (which the way is't looking now is dead?) gives points...

So there is absolutely no way to get comp points with old HW and allso no point in benching as a team as far as any rankings go :(

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30 minutes ago, yosarianilives said:

I agree, this bench is way overvalued, especially when it's ridiculously easy to essentially type in your score. Nothing this easy to cheat should have points.

Yes its overvalued when a benchmark needs 1-2 cards going full pot (have u tried that btw?) and cpu maxed out as well in order to get 10-15% more points than ez pz 2D.

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9 minutes ago, FireKillerGR said:

Yes its overvalued when a benchmark needs 1-2 cards going full pot (have u tried that btw?) and cpu maxed out as well in order to get 10-15% more points than ez pz 2D.

I know that you bench legit, but the bench is so very insecure that a score can just be selected without a gpu OC. The cheat I know is so very easy and takes no skill that it renders the efforts of legit scores a shambles. I got a #36 global score with intel integrated graphics and cpu at 5 ghz using the cheat, obviously I didn't submit it but I have a screenshot I can share in PM.

Edited by yosarianilives
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So the culprit is just the seasonal team ranking?
I think this can be easily changed back to an all time ranking again. I dont see why this needs to be seasonal.

Actually first I thought the seasonal ranking just add more complexity but the more I think about it the more I like the idea.
The seasonal ranking idea has the advantage to attract new benchers to easily climb up. I mean hwbot is over 10 years old, if the ranking would be static for all times, newcomers see those thousand and thousands of points and give up early.
Cause it  makes a difference if you had 10 years time to bench those gazillion hardware / benchmark combinations or just some months.

However the current approach to calculate the career points needs to get tweaked. As currently, if you have benched a lot of current gen hardware, you are way too good in the career ranking which pisses people who are here for a long time.
As we all know, there is a new hardware generation coming each year, and each year world records gets beaten by new hardware. If I take a look at the profile of splave http://uat.hwbot.org/user/splave/#Points I see that his seasonal ranking doesnt differ much from his career ranking which leaves the question why having two rankings if it acutally doesnt look much different.
So my proposal is to remove global points from career ranking and increase the submissions taken into account for the ranking, maybe to 50 hardware and 30 competition. Just to make a difference between one year and 10 years contribution to the bot.

The seasonal ranking is a nice idea. But you also have to see that points get zeroed every year. So it might be also a good idea to create new achievements like best overclocker 2017 or something.
And introduce rankings or leader boards for the last years.
So we all could see who was the best of 2010 or something. 

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3 minutes ago, richba5tard said:

You guys are exhausting. :) Current revs are no good. Old revs are no good. New revs are no good.

Get the current rev fully working then maybe we consider updating it. When I have to recalc some subs several times (and I did extensive testing, you really have to recalc several times it's not just the server catching up to the first one) you can't say that current rev works. Most of the continuing complaints about our current rev is how much the ranking algorithm just fails to work at times or otherwise things break. People have mostly calmed down about how points are gained. You need to pick a way that points are attained and stick to it, people like to know what they need to do to get ahead without it changing all the time.

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Ohh, come on brother :)

Is this REALLY the point of all this ?

What now ?

Deal with the bush, when the whole forest is ready to go on fire ?

We should all try Stavros and see things objectively and not subjectively.

If we stubbornly stick to what is best for each one, then my prediction is that extremely soon, only sponsored top dogs will exist here.

If that is the final frontier, because that is what MONEY ORDERS, then folks why don't you make HWBOT a private club and let us mortals bench at home for fun.

My captain and friend Mr.Scott has gotten a soar throat by saying for years now, Pros and all the rest.

Why ?

Because the expectations are different.

Pros bench for money, honor, prizes.

All the rest bench for fun and their Team.

Can we really put both in the same pool ?

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9 hours ago, richba5tard said:

 

But hardware points are a contributing factor! Member points = top 30 submissions (global + hardware + wr points) + top 10 competition entries. Why the idea it is no longer relevant?

I am dead set on having all rankings based on same logic. Difference in career and seasonal should only be the scope of the year, not different logic IMHO.

Hardware points still count. Why do you think it does not? Deciding which apps get points and which not is an related discussion.

Because combining the scores and making it top 30 subs does make hw points essentially irrelevant. 

A gold in a hard fought category like gtx 580 3dmark06 53points is worth the same as a 75th place xtu run in the new points system. 

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3 minutes ago, Fasttrack said:

Ohh, come on brother :)

Is this REALLY the point of all this ?

What now ?

Well the point is that I didnt see too much constructive criticism in this thread. Just complaints. 
If you want that Frederik does change something in your direction you have to give him something he can work with.

I mean it should be clear if Frederik just receives negative feedback of his work, he probably doesnt see the point to spend time on hwbot.
Which ultimately means that hwbot close his doors forever.

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2 minutes ago, Strunkenbold said:

Well the point is that I didnt see too much constructive criticism in this thread. Just complaints. 
If you want that Frederik does change something in your direction you have to give him something he can work with.

I mean it should be clear if Frederik just receives negative feedback of his work, he probably doesnt see the point to spend time on hwbot.
Which ultimately means that hwbot close his doors forever.

I was not addressing you sir with my post but Firekiller.

I do not know you, I have huge respect for your work and I would never even think of criticizing you.

As for Frederic, I think that not all comments have been negative - unless we consider negative whatever does not fit the bill of the Administration.

To put it bluntly, who needs most the "other side".

Us need HWBOT or vice versa.

And if HWBOT closes its doors forever, we lose a playground.

Mind replying what the owner/owners of HWBOT lose ?

A more calm and balanced approach from all involved is due here.

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24 minutes ago, Fasttrack said:

Ohh, come on brother :)

Is this REALLY the point of all this ?

What now ?

Deal with the bush, when the whole forest is ready to go on fire ?

We should all try Stavros and see things objectively and not subjectively.

If we stubbornly stick to what is best for each one, then my prediction is that extremely soon, only sponsored top dogs will exist here.

If that is the final frontier, because that is what MONEY ORDERS, then folks why don't you make HWBOT a private club and let us mortals bench at home for fun.

My captain and friend Mr.Scott has gotten a soar throat by saying for years now, Pros and all the rest.

Why ?

Because the expectations are different.

Pros bench for money, honor, prizes.

All the rest bench for fun and their Team.

Can we really put both in the same pool ?

Of course I am not the most objective person on the planet; far from that actually :D
And got a bit "tilted" about the 03 thing tbh (nothing against yosarian ofc).

Coming up with suggestions to improve the new format and everything takes time. 
Time that was already spent less than a year ago and no matter how it looks now, it will def need fixes once rev8 is out.
That was my main issue; everyone will need to re-adapt again.

Will need to check it in more detail during the weekend.

Edited by FireKillerGR
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33 minutes ago, FireKillerGR said:

Of course I am not the most objective person on the planet; far from that actually :D
And got a bit "tilted" about the 03 thing tbh (nothing against yosarian ofc).

Coming up with suggestions to improve the new format and everything takes time. 
Time that was already spent less than a year ago and no matter how it looks now, it will def need fixes once rev8 is out.
That was my main issue; everyone will need to re-adapt again.


Will need to check it in more detail during the weekend.

This ^^

At this point I'm ready to have rev8 pushed to production. Then frederick can spend time bug fixing instead of debating with people here. The rest of us can spend time getting used to the new revision instead of talking about it. Like stavros said, time to re-adapt again. Rip off the band-aid so to speak.

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4 hours ago, avalanche said:

Your a reasonable guy. I've chatted to you before.

My team guys some old have been HWbot from the beginning. Alot of revisions they've seen.

Don't FUCK this up. Look at those bloody cups & all the time and effort. Ales on my team, he's sunk a bloody lot of time in, plenty of them have.

It's eroding of my teams efforts & they work bloody hard @ scores

p89q9b97mv5a97f6g.jpg

This highlights an issue that has been around forever with hwbot, do you rewards width or height so to speak.

The hw masters ranking in theory should cover the width, those members who bench a wide range of hw, rather than focusing in on a smaller popular selection. For some, benching a huge range of hw is the more impressive, for others getting 5 top scores >>>>> 1000s of subs, so in theory you should have best of both worlds with normal and hw master rankings.

Also team shouldn't be seasonal, if anything the teamcup naturally acts as a seasonal team ranking.

 

1 hour ago, Strunkenbold said:

So the culprit is just the seasonal team ranking?
I think this can be easily changed back to an all time ranking again. I dont see why this needs to be seasonal.

However the current approach to calculate the career points needs to get tweaked. As currently, if you have benched a lot of current gen hardware, you are way too good in the career ranking which pisses people who are here for a long time.
As we all know, there is a new hardware generation coming each year, and each year world records gets beaten by new hardware. If I take a look at the profile of splave http://uat.hwbot.org/user/splave/#Points I see that his seasonal ranking doesnt differ much from his career ranking which leaves the question why having two rankings if it acutally doesnt look much different.
So my proposal is to remove global points from career ranking and increase the submissions taken into account for the ranking, maybe to 50 hardware and 30 competition. Just to make a difference between one year and 10 years contribution to the bot.

The seasonal ranking is a nice idea. But you also have to see that points get zeroed every year. So it might be also a good idea to create new achievements like best overclocker 2017 or something.
And introduce rankings or leader boards for the last years.
So we all could see who was the best of 2010 or something. 

For active benchers, season and career shouldn't be that different surely? Since they'll bench new stuff for globals, and also rebench older stuff possibly with new hw in combination (new cpus with older gpus) in order to improve their hw subs.

Keeping globals in the career is a nice balance to me, as it rewards active benchers, but doesn't mean you completely lose out if you're no longer active, but you will slowly slip down the rankings.

Also still think comp points have no place in the career ranking, thought we were heading towards older hwbot, aren't comp points a new thing? (at least I don't remember them being around when I joined), competition points are naturally suited to a seasonal ranking as they lose points after a year anyway.

 

Edit:

Career:  Top 20 global + Top 40 HW 

Seasonal: Top 30 subs + Top 10 Comp (all during that 'season')

Numbers can be adjusted obviously, but to me this is a nice balance.

Edited by GeorgeStorm
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Career: Top 40 HW, No Global & WR

Seasonal: Top 10 (HW, Global & WR), Top 10 Comps.

Personally want to see more movement in the big dog ranks and global & WR points are fleeting & more or less seasonal. Team League traditionally has been about width and Team Cup is the height and crap have two 20L dewars and a new CPU pot and used GPU pot just for TC next year, Yes I'm biased don't want to see all those crap CPUs I've benched become useless other than data base holders.

My only complaint is the change, find something and stick with it. In the end I will either adjust to the system or save my money.

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