_mat_ Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Now that XTU will have its global points removed soon, I am officially publishing my findings on this benchmark. I tried to give full insight on how to disect and uncover the security issues of XTU but also some tweaks and the possiblity to run the inner benchmark executable on its own for quick performance testing and points calculation. https://www.overclockers.at/articles/intels-xtu-analyzed This is not some kind of personal vendetta against Intel; far from it. The article's purpose is purely educational to raise awareness for benchmark security and timer reliability. This is not only about cheating, it's about the credibility of benchmarks and result databases like the bot as well. Security vulnerabilities are not taken seriously enough by benchmark developers and HWBOT in my opinion. Yes, I am going the hard way with XTU in my article of course and that's not for everyone. But there are already tools available for download that will get you ahead without any effort. So I'd like to start a discussion here on how we can improve the situation permanently. It goes without saying that any serious initiative would require a cooperation from all sides involved. Edited January 3, 2019 by _mat_ by staffs request 6 7 Quote
Administrators websmile Posted January 3, 2019 Administrators Posted January 3, 2019 Rip xtu, you will be missed - the king is dead, hail to the new king hwbotprime 1.00 1 Quote
Members GeorgeStorm Posted January 3, 2019 Members Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Don't think anyone will be sad about losing XTU Edited January 4, 2019 by GeorgeStorm 1 1 Quote
havli Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 XTU is one thing... but with enough effort I'm sure many benchmarks can be hacked like this. And I seriously doubt those vulnerabilities will be fixed. 1 4 1 Quote
havli Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) ... and the last one can turn off the server and switch the lights off. //edit... but similar analysis of x265 would be interesting of course. On the other hand It holds a risk of finding some kind of a security hole which may not be possible to fix at all... or would take too much of time to be worth it. The fact the benchmark developer is still here doesn't guarantee unlimited maintenance and support. Edited January 3, 2019 by havli 1 1 Quote
_mat_ Posted January 4, 2019 Author Posted January 4, 2019 Yes, every benchmark is breakable and nothing is 100% bulletproof. But that's not necessary, we only need to increase the cost for cheating to a level where it's easier/cheaper to just overclock and make the damn score. Overclocking has no 100,000 USD competitions, so it's not an impossible task. Regarding your benchmark and its current state of security: It took ~2 hours to break HWBOT Prime 1.0 and your bench and I've never written a single Java desktop application. it. No debugging or code changing involved, only static analysis of your executable. If you need details on how to reproduce this, just let me know and we'll chat. 1 1 Quote
speed.fastest Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) XTU actually is fun to bench, only if it support AMD and not only 2 seconds count for scoring. There is still no successor for SuperPi 32m for new platform, proper multithreaded & memory scales a lot! I only think is 3DMark11 Physics is only option for now to replace SuperPi 32m. And please dont do this unless you submit this to their developer only, so xoc is not dead. We dont know this if someone not publicing this. I respect your good job still! Edited January 4, 2019 by speed.fastest 2 Quote
IvanCupa Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 Whoa...! now we need Geekbench savefile score hack. ? 1 Quote
cbjaust Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, speed.fastest said: XTU actually is fun to bench, only if it support AMD and not only 2 seconds count for scoring. There is still no successor for SuperPi 32m for new platform, proper multithreaded & memory scales a lot! I only think is 3DMark11 Physics is only option for now to replace SuperPi 32m. And please dont do this unless you submit this to their developer only, so xoc is not dead. We dont know this if someone not publicing this. I respect your good job still! What about GPUPI (even though its a royal pain to get everything working)? Hopefuly v4.0 will be out soon and and the woes of installing OpenCL support will be at an end. 1 Quote
speed.fastest Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, cbjaust said: What about GPUPI (even though its a royal pain to get everything working)? Hopefuly v4.0 will be out soon and and the woes of installing OpenCL support will be at an end. GPUPI is good, but its pure cpu, it doesnt even care if single channel memory only. 1 Quote
Guest Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 @speed.fastest What about Firestrike/Timespy physics? I know Timespy properly scales with threads past 16t. Quote
_mat_ Posted January 4, 2019 Author Posted January 4, 2019 9 hours ago, speed.fastest said: XTU actually is fun to bench, only if it support AMD and not only 2 seconds count for scoring. There is still no successor for SuperPi 32m for new platform, proper multithreaded & memory scales a lot! I only think is 3DMark11 Physics is only option for now to replace SuperPi 32m. I already have a Prime95 benchmark ready that scales pretty much perfectly and is very hungry for memory bandwidth. It is using the latest Prime95 version (29.4) and includes a few fixes like NUMA awareness, improved thread synronization and error checking. It's also faster than the XTU version. It seamlessly integrates into XTU so you can start XTU with an AMD CPU and just run the benchmark. It won't be far off to create a WIN32 application that runs the bench and uploads the score to HWBOT. Is this something the community would be interested in? 1 4 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 4, 2019 Crew Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) we need wrappers, everywhere just to keep OC alive, you can make those Matt... However due to our own self destructive community attitude it might not be enough... sigh Honestly beats me why people always have to go the extra mile for some bragging rights on the internet... Edited January 4, 2019 by Leeghoofd 1 3 Quote
Members GeorgeStorm Posted January 4, 2019 Members Posted January 4, 2019 In this case isn't it mat going the extra mile to prove people could go the extra mile... ? 1 1 Quote
Splave Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, richba5tard said: Benchmark makers should prevent easy cheating..like adjusting the windows clock no offense by why did you not then with hwbotprime? 1 Quote
Crew Leeghoofd Posted January 4, 2019 Crew Posted January 4, 2019 modern OC is a moderators nitemare, even the latest timespy and co can still be tricked and submitted valid sigh... Why can't peeps just press run benchmark 9 2 1 Quote
yosarianilives Posted January 6, 2019 Posted January 6, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 10:16 PM, speed.fastest said: GPUPI is good, but its pure cpu, it doesnt even care if single channel memory only. Not now that it uses avx on intel... Quote
miker2ka Posted March 11, 2019 Posted March 11, 2019 So where is XTU heading? The hw points will be removed too? I was thinking of benching the 7xxx no K chips.... but want to know if there is any point ... Quote
yosarianilives Posted March 11, 2019 Posted March 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, miker2ka said: So where is XTU heading? The hw points will be removed too? I was thinking of benching the 7xxx no K chips.... but want to know if there is any point ... If we're lucky it'll lose all points. That pile of garbage that intel calls a bench should've died a long time ago. 1 Quote
Guest Posted March 11, 2019 Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, yosarianilives said: If we're lucky it'll lose all points. That pile of garbage that intel calls a bench should've died a long time ago. Haha hilarious The 3 second benchmark running the processor beyond it's capability ... then slow mode the " normally unstable junk " over the finish line Your settings rubbish to complete a 1 minute test & burst into flames ... but you all took the bigger score & bigger points Quote
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