Seller failing to refund after DOA

[Noxinite]

Hello all I have some bad news to share with you.

TLDR please don't buy/sell/trade with @Ziken until I have managed to get my money back from him.

I bought a binned 8700K from @Ziken a few months back to go in my Z170 motherboard. I recieved the CPU and not having a way to test it immediately, I proceed to perform the mod for 1151-1 comptability. The CPU never reached the start of the POST codes in my testing - two motherboards failed to detect there was a CPU present. Given that the modding process worked perfectly fine with a similar CPU (G5400) I can only assume that the 8700K died during transit. I made this clear to Ziken and he offered to refund me when the delivery company refunded him - I agreed to this at the time as I thought it would be relatively quick as they were clearly at fault. Apparently not... So here I am 3 months later with a dead CPU, 500 euros out of pocket and a seller who seems to willfully ignore my PMs while selling more hardware on the marketplace. At no point has he offered to refund me himself and because I have no leverage over him he can't seemed to be bothered with chasing the delivery company.

Obviously I made a mistake in not paying with a medium that offered payment protection and Ziken seems to have taken full advantage of this, and so I have decided to make this thread in an attempt to warn other people that he is not to be trusted.

 

@Ziken I would like my money back in full and then I will happily return the CPU to you.

 

Appendices:

Here is a timeline of events:

• The parcel was packed suitably by the sender and sent on 06/Feburary/2019.
• The parcel was transported in France via Mondial Relay (tracking: 39954527).
• The parcel was transported in the UK via Hermes (tracking: 1675577398066093).
• The parcel was delivered on 13/Feburary/2019.
• The buyerwas not at home.
• The Hermes driver signed for the parcel themselves and threw the parcel over a fence into the recipients back garden.
• When the recipient returned home they found the parcel damaged heavily in two places.
• The item was tested on 16/Feburary/2019 and found to be faulty.
• The seller was informed.
• The item was further inspected on 17/Feburary/2019 to find their was physical damage to the item. Namely a crack that render the item inoperatable.
• The seller contacted Mondial Relay on 19/Feburary/2019.
• The seller recieved a reply from Mondial Relay on 25/Feburary/2019 stating that they were not responsible.
• The buyer contacted the UK delivery company who stated that the delivery was "not acceptable" and that the dispute solely rested between the seller and Mondial Relay (04/March/2019).
• The seller says that they have emailed Mondial Relay again on 10/March/2019 (no evidence).
• The seller says that they will call on 27/March/2019 (no evidence).
• The seller says that they will call on 24/April/2019 (no evidence).
• G5400 modded and working fine as of 27/April/2019.

And here is my account of the testing I did on the CPU:

• When I received it I noted the damage to the sides of the parcel, how it had been thrown over the gate and not signed for correctly.
• As I picked up the parcel I noted that I could feel movement inside the parcel (the CPU could still slide around).
• I opened up the package and inspected the CPU – I saw it had a scratch across the die, but I assumed it was harmless.
• The motherboard I tested it in was a Z170X SOC Force LN2 that had been tested and was working for Coffeelake CPUs.
• To prepare the CPU I masked off all of the pins that were different between the 1151-1 and 1151-2 sockets.
• Then I applied silver ink to the SKT_OCC and GROUND pads that are required for any Coffeelake mod.
• The motherboard turned on, but displayed nothing on the POST display. This suggested that the motherboard was not detecting a CPU in the socket.
• I assumed this was down to the silver ink having too high a resistance to short the two pads, so I preceded to mask off around the SKT_OCC and GROUND pads and solder them together.
• Once again the motherboard turned on, but displayed nothing on the POST display.
• To test whether the motherboard was at fault I removed the solder from the pads and bought an MSI H310M PRO-VDH to test in.
• The MSI H310M PRO-VDH was tested to be working and that it had the newest bios in.
• When the 8700K was placed in the motherboard it immediately got stuck at the CPU error LED. Again this suggests that the motherboard was not detecting a CPU in the socket.
• At this point I rechecked the CPU and noticed the “scratch” a second time, on closer inspection and in comparison to the dies of other delidded CPUs I own I realised the “scratch” was actual a crack.
• If there is a crack in the die of the CPU it is reasonable to assume that this would damage the CPU to a point where motherboards don’t detect it.
• Exactly the same process was repeated for a G5400 (same stepping/PCB) and it works flawlessly in my motherboard - no instant death - so the 8700K must have been damaged during transit.

 Noxinite.

[Fasttrack]

Sad situations.

Same seller declined to accept my payment for 3 X VGA cards, when he saw that I paid with normal PayPal transaction and not friends and family.

There are unfortunately a few cases of irresponsible sellers here at the market place.

People, do not trust your mother, lol

PayPal protection is the only way to go.

I have personally lost over 3000 euros during the years here, from items that either never arrived or were DOA.

As for transport insurance - THE LAW is very specific on this throughout Europe. Seller has to immediately file a claim to the transportation company and acknowledge the buyer

of the written claim. Indeed, it takes time to recover money from insurance, yet basic ethics should make the seller refund the buyer, recover the defective item from the buyer as evidence

to the transportation company that item was damaged  and then wait from the insurance company for his compensation. 

[Niuulh]

@Noxinite Ziken is well known in France to scam people. He will play the victime and say everyone you are a noob and kill it.

 

2 hours ago, Noxinite said:

 

 

[GeorgeStorm]

Would have been nice for some of the French guys to comment on his threads warning people! It'll be looked into.

[suzuki]

2 hours ago, Niuulh said:

@Noxinite Ziken is well known in France to scam people. He will play the victime and say everyone you are a noob and kill it.

 

 

I heard the same from 2 different french oc-ers i have in my friends list when i reserved something on his topic, made me change my mind,thanks god :).

 

sorry Nox,to hear about this.

[Noxinite]

4 hours ago, Niuulh said:

@Noxinite Ziken is well known in France to scam people. He will play the victime and say everyone you are a noob and kill it.

 

 

:(((

Edit: I have considered making a claim through the European Small Claims Court, but not sure how successful it would be.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Noxinite

[Fasttrack]

Peculiar, to say the least, that the "seller" has not appeared to defend himself

I had a couple of cases, being in the position of the potential buyer, that I was refused the right to pay with PayPal transaction normally.

" Only friends and family" I was told. And immediately backed off.

[bigblock990]

12 minutes ago, Noxinite said:

:(((

Edit: I have considered making a claim through the European Small Claims Court, but not sure how successful it would be.

Not sure how it works in Europe, but in USA small claims court is a joke. Even if you win the judgement, there is nothing that forces the person to pay you. So you then need to go back to court and attempt to get a lien against them, or have the court garnish their wages ect ect. Unfortunately would be a HUGE waste of time and effort for $500

[Achill3uS]

Its simple parcel services will refuse everything if you cannot prove that it's their responsibility that the item demaged. If you did not took picture before opening, if there was no damage on the package at all, good luck trying to get your money back because your hands are empty and they are not stupid. Ppl trying to screw them over by sending faulty device and call that it broke during delivery. If no evidence they will not pay a cent.

Sorry for your loss mate. Try to work it out with Ziken, it is the only option i think. I still dont want to beleive that to some people reputation and respect means nothing.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Achill3uS

[Noxinite]

1 minute ago, Achill3uS said:

Its simple parcel services will refuse everything if you cannot prove that it's their responsibility that the item demaged. If you did not took picture before opening, if there was no damage on the package at all, good luck trying to get your money back because your hands are empty and they are not stupid. Ppl trying to screw them over by sending faulty device and call that it broke during delivery. If no evidence they will not pay a cent.

It was damaged and I did take photos, I have no idea if the seller actually told them that though.

11 minutes ago, bigblock990 said:

Not sure how it works in Europe, but in USA small claims court is a joke. Even if you win the judgement, there is nothing that forces the person to pay you. So you then need to go back to court and attempt to get a lien against them, or have the court garnish their wages ect ect. Unfortunately would be a HUGE waste of time and effort for $500

That's what I was expecting too.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Noxinite

[Achill3uS]

In Hungary such case to check and validate could take up to 45 days by law. And god knows how long if they ask the original item as evidence and the refund itself if they find it valid.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Achill3uS

[Niuulh]

5 hours ago, GeorgeStorm said:

Would have been nice for some of the French guys to comment on his threads warning people! It'll be looked into.

I'm never come on the forum, but anytime i see him sell something i warn about it.

50 minutes ago, Achill3uS said:

Try to work it out with Ziken, it is the only option i think. I still dont want to beleive that to some people reputation and respect means nothing.

IF Ziken answer he will play the victim and blame Noxinite like he always do. But yeah i don't think you have another option.. He don't have any shame at all, and i know him personnaly to say that sadly..

Edited May 7, 2019 by Niuulh

[Fasttrack]

In simple words @Noxinite , there is not the slightest chance to get any money thru paths of the Law.

How on Earth can someone prove that the item ( processor ) was damaged during transport...

For the DIE to crack there is only one way - mishandling or damage during the delidding process.

What I am saying is that he sold you an already damaged processor for working.

Or, to be totally fair, you damaged it yourself ( sorry mate, but it is a chance in a 1000 ). Maybe you did not understand it. I am not saying you did it, still the chance is right there.

Can happen even to the best. Sorry.

consider it lesson learned - a lesson that cost 500 Euros. And never pay again as friends and family.

I have personal experience. As @Achill3uS said " difficult to believe that some people do not care for their reputation and respect ".

Well, I have been screwed twice by top elite member, which I considered a friend. Lost 600 Euros.

Where $$$ are involved, I insist - Don't trust your mother.

[bolc]

Hi !
Really sorry to read that story
was the cpu sent naked, delidded, and unprotected - no plastic box? no bubble film?

what are the chances for a freely moving cpu inside a box to develop a crack in the die after being thrown away in a box? if you have a dead cpu lying around you could try similar experiments. I can only imagine that a crack would develop in the die if the IHS was put on the cpu but not sealed, hence it could move laterally or/and bang the die surface during a shock. if the cpu was naked, ie no ihs, and wrapped very safely, i can t imagine that a shipping mishandling causes this. same if the ihs was sealed.

you may wrap a delidded (dead) cpu in its plastic box, wrap the box with plastic bubble film, put it in a small box, jump on the box where the cpu is located, and check the die. or throw the box in the air. I have 2 dead cpu on my desk, i will try tomorrow.

now what i can say is that Mondial relay is a pain to deal with, but if you have strong evidence on your side, you need to insist and insist every day by calling them. the seller ought to do that if he felt responsible and concerned...

Edited May 8, 2019 by bolc

[Guest]

I could probably give you advice if you were in the US, but as you aren't I can't.

All forums local to US do not allow F&F as a method of payment, only G&S and cash in person.

I lost $300-400 worth of hardware through a trade scam and still haven't recovered, but I'd like to believe I learned my lesson. Not quite the same situation, but I tried reporting mail fraud (falls under this category). If I was smart I would've gone straight to the authorities of both where I live and where the other person lives, but I unfortunately could not for other reasons.

Thank you for placing this as a warning to the hwbot forums. I feel I would likely fall prey to something like this, and I don't have much knowledge or reputation to prove myself otherwise.

EDIT:

@bigblock990 I didn't know small claims court was that bad, guess I was screwed either way.

Edited May 8, 2019 by AutisticChris

[ozzie]

have to go along with bolc on this as far as the shipping goes, ive been very lucky here with my stuff, everything ive bought has arrived, not on time yes but arrived, i guess australia has better postage and delivery services than most, ive received damaged packaged items b4 but they still worked

i think your prob nox is you saw a scratch to start, which ended up to be a crack, now to me that comes form misuse, over volts or over heat when used to crack it, or both together  moreso i think overheat, im sure it was DOA  b4 it even got to you, if it wasnt and the guy was real and fair dinkum with it hed respond and refund, that hasnt happened months later, 500 euro is 800 $ AUD here , id be spewing too

im sorry for your loss mate but unless you want to spend a lot of money to recoup 500 euro,  itll cost you thousands to get 500 back, , principle yes, common sense and logic no, let it go, hard pill to swallow yes, george already said itll be looked into on the sale side of things in the marketplace, i think these type of sellers should be banned completely, and seems its not the first time this sort of thing has happened according to other posters knowledge of it ive read in this thread

theyre scum mate, causing people dramas and headaches, worry, and for their gain only , dont worry , karma has an uncanny way of repaying this type of thing and others in life to people like this and when it bites,  it bites them hard ?  

[Alex@ro]

I am sorry to ruin the fun for you, BUT, when you receive an ITEM, you TEST IT, no mods , no 8700K on z170, nothing unorthodox, you test it at stock and then you test to see if it meets whatever was advertised. 

If i would sell you a 8700K which i knew it is good and tested before shipping to you, properly packed, and first thing you do is mod and put on z170 then complain it doesn't work, i would send you to sing to other table. There are many things that can go wrong even when everything is official, remember this, if shit can happen, it will happen sooner or later.

 

In your case, well, if you saw that there is a scratch then this was a very big question mark, should notify the seller right away even before testing. However his answer and the way the handles things looks shady, sorry for your loss... Shipping is tricky, and the delivery companies are well known for playing football with the packages, it is the seller responsability to pack it bulletproof so it arrives in good shape to the buyer. If damages occur the shipper should refund the buyer and then deal with the shipping company. Quite simple....

Edited May 8, 2019 by Alex@ro

[I.nfraR.ed]

I am with Alex here. Trying to look at it as neutral as possible.

To me, your mistake is first (as others mentioned) not using e.g. paypal's "pay for goods or services", however I can really understand the reasoning behind this. I've bought several times from respectable hwbot members and most of the times (if not always) I've used the "friends" option.

The next mistake is to directly attempt to test it with an "unofficially supported" method or even attempting any test when you saw the scratch (or crack). Based on other comments in the thread, I could definitely believe the possibility this CPU was damaged prior shipping with e.g. excessive force from a pot mounting, however, realistically speaking, noone could prove that.

As for the shipping claims and other ways of recovering, I can't comment, since I don't have any experience with that. Good luck recovering your money though!

[bolc]

What suprises me most is that the shipper, and the buyer, agreed to such poorly insured way of sending a 500 eur good...

 

I mean Mondial Relay then Hermes... it should have gone International Colissimo + heavy insurance, or Chronopost.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by bolc

[websmile]

There are buyers who simply do not want to pay for this - even at EU where it is 15-20 Euros people ask me to ship for 10 without tracking and insurance. Don´t ask me why...on this case of course, I cannot judge why worse shipping option was chosen

[Radi]

internationnal rules for shipping insurance is 23/kg ... so for a cpu you will receve maybe 5€ ... i always ship with a real insurance . it's more expensive but if you have problem you are covered 

[bolc]

46 minutes ago, Radi said:

internationnal rules for shipping insurance is 23/kg ... so for a cpu you will receve maybe 5€ ... i always ship with a real insurance . it's more expensive but if you have problem you are covered 

by default 23/kg but you can add ad valorem and pay 9 euros extras for getting insured at 500.

you could make a cheaper option, like Lettre Recommandée Internationale R2, insured up to 150, it costs 8.1 total

that's beyond the point though.

 

you French guys making lan / ln2 parties should boycott him once and for all...

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by bolc

[Noxinite]

7 hours ago, Alex@ro said:

I am sorry to ruin the fun for you, BUT, when you receive an ITEM, you TEST IT, no mods , no 8700K on z170, nothing unorthodox, you test it at stock and then you test to see if it meets whatever was advertised. 

If i would sell you a 8700K which i knew it is good and tested before shipping to you, properly packed, and first thing you do is mod and put on z170 then complain it doesn't work, i would send you to sing to other table. There are many things that can go wrong even when everything is official, remember this, if shit can happen, it will happen sooner or later.

 

In your case, well, if you saw that there is a scratch then this was a very big question mark, should notify the seller right away even before testing. However his answer and the way the handles things looks shady, sorry for your loss... Shipping is tricky, and the delivery companies are well known for playing football with the packages, it is the seller responsability to pack it bulletproof so it arrives in good shape to the buyer. If damages occur the shipper should refund the buyer and then deal with the shipping company. Quite simple....

 

6 hours ago, I.nfraR.ed said:

I am with Alex here. Trying to look at it as neutral as possible.

To me, your mistake is first (as others mentioned) not using e.g. paypal's "pay for goods or services", however I can really understand the reasoning behind this. I've bought several times from respectable hwbot members and most of the times (if not always) I've used the "friends" option.

The next mistake is to directly attempt to test it with an "unofficially supported" method or even attempting any test when you saw the scratch (or crack). Based on other comments in the thread, I could definitely believe the possibility this CPU was damaged prior shipping with e.g. excessive force from a pot mounting, however, realistically speaking, noone could prove that.

As for the shipping claims and other ways of recovering, I can't comment, since I don't have any experience with that. Good luck recovering your money though!

Both true unfortunately.

4 hours ago, bolc said:

What suprises me most is that the shipper, and the buyer, agreed to such poorly insured way of sending a 500 eur good...

 

I mean Mondial Relay then Hermes... it should have gone International Colissimo + heavy insurance, or Chronopost.

Nonetheless, my bet is that it was DOA cause it was sent dead...

Err, I asked him to ship insured and tracked, and as far as I know it was insured for it's 500e value. I also didn't know it was shipped with Mondial til after it was shipped. More fool me for not asking beforehand.

Also, this was one of the rare times I decided to not pay via goods & services. I can't say why I decided it wasn't work paying the extra few %, but clearly it was a massive mistake.

As for packaging, the CPU (PCB + lid) were shipped in the plastic blister delidded with no paste. The CPU blister also seemed to be able to slide from one end to the other.

[bolc]

 

CPU (PCB + lid) were shipped in the plastic blister delidded with no paste  MEANS IHS can move as much as it wants on the die.

the original silicone seal was removed for the pcb ?

 

 

[websmile]

Maybe I overlook something, but where is the thread you bought it from at hwbot?