Opinion needed: Ideas for next HWBOT revision

[Christian Ney]

Proposal #7:

 

The idea is to have a league system that is a ranking system to find other overclockers of a similar skill level to compete with or against.

 

You are in the league in which you meet all criteria. When you reach the limit in one criteria you get promoted to the upper league.

 

+Hardware Master League (Ranking based on the total amount of HWP)

 

League Points: TopX WRP + TopX GP + TopX HWP

 

One cannot move down league, you can only move up.

 

*League names and limits are subject to change, this is an example to show the idea.

 

Competitions:

The idea is that moving up league gives access to competitions with greater prizes.

The idea is to have two main kind of competitions:

Ranked Competitions: With prizes, count for league selection, limited to specific league(s)

UnRanked Competitions: Usually without prizes, doesn't count for league selection, not limited to specific league(s)

 

 

Proposal to address the current issues:

(I made changes based on your feedback and my crazy ideas)

 

Leagues no more base on cooling:

Leagues no more based on cooling but on the amount of points one have just like any other competitive sport.

With the exception of the Pro League and Rookie/Novice (newcomers) Leagues.

 

We will have:

Pro League (Overclockers working for a hw manufacturer, with sponsors, volunteers, with current gen ES subs with points enabled) (TopX WRP, TopX GP, TopX HWP)

1st League (Overclockers with >1500 pts or >=12 TOP3) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

2nd League (Overclockers with >1000 pts or >=7 TOP3) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

3rd League (Overclockers with >500 pts or >=3 TOP3) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

4th League (Overclockers with <499pts or <3 TOP3) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

Novice League (Overclockers less than one year old) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

Rookie League (Overclockers less than 3 month old) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

 

Hardware Master League (Ranking based on the total amount of HWP)

 

*TOP3: Finished in the TOP3 during an official competition during the last year.

 

*League names, points and competition win limits are subject to change, this is an example.

 

New “EL†Competitions:

Currently:

Limited to Enthusiast League (or in other words limited to air/water cooling)

 

Proposal:

Limited to 4th League with a clock limit. Validation screenshot will require extra monitoring software showing max frequencies. No cooling limitation.

Or

Limited to 4th League with a cooling limitation (Air (Stock and custom) and Water (AIO, Custom) at ambient temperature (around 20°). Cold/chilled water not allowed). Validation screenshot will require extra monitoring software showing max frequencies, voltages, temperatures.

 

Leagues no more base on cooling:

Pro League (Overclockers working for a hw manufacturer, with sponsors, volunteers, with current gen ES subs with points enabled, easy access to harware) (TopX WRP, TopX GP, TopX HWP)

Ranked League (Overclockers looking for a fight) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

Non-Ranked League (Overclockers looking for fun)

Rookie League (Overclockers less than one year old) (TopX GP, TopX HWP)

 

Hardware Master League (Ranking based on the total amount of HWP)

 

*League names, points and competition win limits are subject to change, this is an example.

 

New “EL†Competitions:

Currently:

Limited to Enthusiast League (or in other words limited to air/water cooling)

 

Proposal:

Limited to "Non-Ranked League and < 3 TOP3" with a clock limit. Validation screenshot will require extra monitoring software showing max frequencies. No cooling limitation.

And/Or

Limited to "Non-Ranked League and < 3 TOP3" with a cooling limitation (Air (Stock and custom) and Water (AIO, Custom) at ambient temperature (around 20°). Cold/chilled water not allowed). Validation screenshot will require extra monitoring software showing max frequencies, voltages, temperatures. And also system picture.

 

*TOP3: Finished in the TOP3 during an official competition during the last year.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Christian Ney

[TheGoat Eater]

#2 has my attention - that sounds like a really good way to see some evolution - though IDK where I would like to see that overall evolution end up going

[TaPaKaH]

As soon as you start awarding cooling-based points, people will start coming up with 6GHz watercooled XTU Skylakes.

[mr.paco]

How could anyone really verify what cooling method I am truly using.

I could say I'm running H2o, but in fact am on DIce. Whos to say other wise?

[speed.fastest]

i can't process this because my english is not good too complex. Want to see the result to the test server, easier to me for understanding this

[sunset1]

in the water cooling categories how cold water cooler has to be before extreme .. my tap water is close to chiller temp .. 5c so how can that be extreme. unless others have super cold water from chillers .. i would like to hear from others with chillers what water temp at idle. and at full bench .

 

However i think that its a great start .. and the idea of a points based hierarchy is an interesting one. You put a lot of thought into this ..

Edited March 31, 2016 by sunset1
update

[websmile]

Chiller that brings you to subzero is normally planned for apprentice. This is currently at work and under discussion because this is no easy topic. Lots of chillers, even the "cheap" Haileas, can easily provide -15 degrees celsius, and when you use a cooling option that allows you to go sub zero this is not normal ambient cooling anymore in my opinion. As said, the limits at this are hard to determine, it gives people a lot of headaches . It is also a question of definitions

[Schmuckley]

As soon as you start awarding cooling-based points, people will start coming up with 6GHz watercooled XTU Skylakes.

 

 

lol :banana:

 

Sad but true.

I know 1 thing..XTU needs to lose a little weight..

That alone would bring things into balance better.

 

As for the leagues..o geez..leave it alone for a minute

 

If your chiller goes below zero..simple..extreme league

Time to get a pot

 

He said Polyvalent!

Edited March 31, 2016 by Schmuckley

[speed.fastest]

I think for Water Chiller better make a new category, this is not Water Cooling anymore but Water Chiller, no matter what temp

Water Chiller should be in Apprentice League. Because Water Chiller is not comparable to Custom Water Cooling (Ambient without Chiller).

[phobosq]

Will there be any tangible benefit for a user who is promoted to a higher league? If we consider it as a sport, we could expect something like that.

This might probably apply to higher leagues.

#2 seems interesting, however as Sam mentioned proper verification will be required. I have also one more suggestion - maybe everyone would be able to get global cooling points for two entries in a benchmark, one for extreme, second for ambient cooling.

[nickolp1974]

You call them leagues but they are not, they are catagories competing in one league so why not actually split them up.

So if you are in enthusiast which should be any cooling above 0c, say you use a GTX580 which awards 49 hardware points, why cant the highest in that catagory be awarded max points for that piece of hardware so each catagory can get the max points available for a particular piece of hardware and make the spread of points better instead of the top 3, this would give an incetive to better your result, instead of thinking "that was crap, i gainned 0.7pts for the extra effort and moving up 6 places"

Obviously if you move up a league a recalculation at server level is required.

Also doing it this way you are truly competing in your own league and not against others from a higher league.

Edited March 31, 2016 by nickolp1974

[Rauf]

Completely separate global- and hw-rankings for extreme cooling and ambient. No need to complicate things further...

 

Imagine answering this question from someone new to hwbot: "How do the rankings work?"

Can you explain that and not loose the other person while explaining it?

[Mr.Scott]

Forget #2.

You can't possibly segregate by cooling, especially with water, until you have a fool proof way to prove actual temp. Until that time comes, you are only kidding yourself if you think that won't be exploited.

[TAGG]

So... Winter Air would be considered Extreme? BC i managed, that my e8400 was ideling at about 5°C on water (-12°C ambient + 2 Server Fans on 240mm RAD)

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3105321_tagg_superpi___1m_core_2_duo_e8400_8sec_828ms

Edited April 1, 2016 by TAGG

[der8auer]

I like hwbot the way it is now

[Guest cowgut]

I like the idea of #2 but as said its the benchmark community 2000 980 ti's and x5960's @ 5.4 on air so nope it will be crap and unlikely that it would really better hwbot.

in a perfect world I would like it tbh

[Taloken]

#2 is just impossible to moderate, it's totally based on honesty, one of rariest ressources on this Earth

[Splave]

why dont we have an HWBot program that is a watch dog for all benchmarks and records Temp and Freq? like a global wrapper?

[TX_OC]

"Introduction of "cooling points"." idea sounds very intresting

 

I only bench on water, it would be nice if there were cooling points so that when i have a result that is very good for ambient but not very good overall due to many people using ln2 on that particular cpu I get extra points for being good on ambient cooling

[TX_OC]

I think for Water Chiller better make a new category, this is not Water Cooling anymore but Water Chiller, no matter what temp

Water Chiller should be in Apprentice League. Because Water Chiller is not comparable to Custom Water Cooling (Ambient without Chiller).

 

+1 this is a very good idea

[TX_OC]

So... Winter Air would be considered Extreme? BC i managed, that my e8400 was ideling at about 5°C on water (-12°C ambient + 2 Server Fans on 240mm RAD)

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3105321_tagg_superpi___1m_core_2_duo_e8400_8sec_828ms

 

http://hwbot.org/submission/3176207_tx_oc_superpi___1m_core_2_duo_e8400_8sec_843ms

would putting the rad outside my window count as "extreme"

 

I think its a very bad idea to put water cooling into the extreme category. Pushing water cooling to its limits does not make the cooling extreme. water cooling was never designed to be extreme in the first place

 

edit:

even the more innovative ways of using water to cool the cpu such as garden hose cooling should still count as water cooling and not be classed under extreme, otherwise this sub would make me extreme overclocker, which many people will agree im far from

http://hwbot.org/submission/3141968_tx_oc_wprime___32m_core_2_duo_e8400_14sec_297ms

Edited April 1, 2016 by TX_OC

[techjesse]

I like it! Get with CPU-Z and put a temp reading on the main tab for temp val.

 

GPU-Z too

[FatBoyNotSoSlim]

why dont we have an HWBot program that is a watch dog for all benchmarks and records Temp and Freq? like a global wrapper?

Do we have an infallible temperature monitoring solution across all OS and hardware? Whilst I'm onboard with this as it makes sense, we all know you can have a single core skewed +-10c due to poor silicon lottery.

[Mr.Scott]

http://hwbot.org/submission/3176207_tx_oc_superpi___1m_core_2_duo_e8400_8sec_843ms

would putting the rad outside my window count as "extreme"

 

I think its a very bad idea to put water cooling into the extreme category. Pushing water cooling to its limits does not make the cooling extreme. water cooling was never designed to be extreme in the first place

 

edit:

even the more innovative ways of using water to cool the cpu such as garden hose cooling should still count as water cooling and not be classed under extreme, otherwise this sub would make me extreme overclocker, which many people will agree im far from

http://hwbot.org/submission/3141968_tx_oc_wprime___32m_core_2_duo_e8400_14sec_297ms

 

+1 this is a very good idea

 

Your last two posts are exactly why this will never happen. How do YOU propose to moderate those subs when you cannot even prove the method of cooling or temp?

In a perfect honest world, great idea.

The world is neither perfect nor honest.

[Lucky_n00b]

Your last two posts are exactly why this will never happen. How do YOU propose to moderate those subs when you cannot even prove the method of cooling or temp?

In a perfect honest world, great idea.

The world is neither perfect nor honest.

 

Sad but true.

That being said, if there's a method (like a 'wrapper' Splave said) to correctly determine the maximum CPU or GPU temperature during the benchmark is ran, in which the security cannot be compromised, and the temp sensor can be trusted,

it will open up a whole new possibility of an oc competition. (specific temperature-limited competition that's not only XTU for example)