Is Enthusiast League still any fun?

[Mythical tech]

Just now, ADVenturePO said:

No, man still out of my thought. Enthusiast League should use cooling (as we do) for 24/7 usage. 

Am I not an overclocking enthusiast by your standards because I only really have one platform for benching or that my cooling method isn't really 24/7 ready? Leagues say nothing of skill or dedication to learning how to overclock. I am not trying to start an argument I am just giving my thoughts on the subject. 

[suzuki]

Enthusiast is a broken league, it took me a long time to get it, i hope you will do it to,eventually.

As for those type of people who buy some nice shining hardware and they are not pleased for the 2 points they are getting, this hobby is not for them.

Look at nachtfalke,poparamiro, vadimua, infrared and others which can be good in any league you put them, and most important they enjoy what they are doing. A great overclocker is the one who enjoys what he is doing, no matter the points and through this, obtains good results in his conditions.

Edited December 23, 2019 by suzuki

[ADVenturePO]

7 hours ago, Mythical tech said:

Am I not an overclocking enthusiast by your standards because I only really have one platform for benching or that my cooling method isn't really 24/7 ready? Leagues say nothing of skill or dedication to learning how to overclock. I am not trying to start an argument I am just giving my thoughts on the subject. 

Well... enthusiast... yes.

[Mythical tech]

2 minutes ago, ADVenturePO said:

OMG. Yes - for 120K USD yes and this is neither standard, nor LC no AIR. 

I love overclocking and don't do it on my main rig I actually underclock and undervolt it and use a passive cooler to reduce failure points. Water cooling comes with a risk and some people who just want to have their system to run think that water cooling is just as excessive as ln2. Price is relative, water cooling isn't much better than air in terms of actual real world performance and is quite expensive compared to a entry level air cooler 

 

[ADVenturePO]

7 hours ago, suzuki said:

Enthusiast is a broken league, it took me a long time to get it, i hopw you will do eventually.

As for those type of people who buy some nice shining hardware and they are not pleased for the 2 points they are getting, this hobby is not for them.

Look at nachtfalke,poparamiro, vadimua, infrared and others which can be good in any league you put them, and most important they enjoy what they are doing. A great overclocker is the one who enjoys what he is doing, no matter the points and through this obtains good results in his conditions.

Oh yes, but it's leading in numbers one. And we could all learn a lot from this one. Fight here is much more competitive and true, but it is burning out. 
 

[ADVenturePO]

7 hours ago, Mythical tech said:

love overclocking and don't do it on my main rig I actually underclock and undervolt it and use a passive cooler to reduce failure points. Water cooling comes with a risk and some people who just want to have their system to run think that water cooling is just as excessive as ln2. Price is relative, water cooling isn't much better than air in terms of actual real world performance and is quite expensive compared to a entry level air cooler 

Yeah, that's why I've wrote enthusiast, not Enthusiast. PC holder. Great. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by ADVenturePO

[ADVenturePO]

So @Mr.Scott and @Mythical tech    think it's so hard to build cascade phase change or buy a chiller than?
That's a bit pathetic. Well my dear OCers it's not. It's just like getting a totally different difficulty level. 
Enthusiasts are playing on Nightmare. Phase and Chillers are playing on Hurt me Plenty and in fact LN2 or LHe are playing on "Hey, not too rough" and after a year or two it's straight "I'm too young to die" .

All I wanted you to see is that core count changes, lithography changes, and Enthusiast will no longer participate in new CPU benches as it will be totally out of fun. 
I'd just like to have fun playing on a Nightmare again. Not thinking - OK, two guys with LN2 or LHe will kill my efforts totally. 
That's not fun, that's just nightmare, and it's like playing a game with a cheater with auto aim.

Well all you statements completely confirms this  - you just want your own points.

Well bear in mind. I don't want to be compared with Extreme OCers. I want to fight in my own weight class. 
 You feel good that you have won with Enthusiasts in a competition with Phase or a chiller?
Wow, You're a hero than. But only in Your mind.  

[Mythical tech]

1 minute ago, ADVenturePO said:

So @Mr.Scott and @Mythical tech    think it's so hard to build cascade phase change or buy a chiller than?
That's a bit pathetic. Well my dear OCers it's not. It's just like getting a totally different difficulty level. 
Enthusiasts are playing on Nightmare. Phase and Chillers are playing on Hurt me Plenty and in fact LN2 or LHe are playing on "Hey, not too rough" and after a year or two it's straight "I'm too young to die" .

All I wanted you to see is that core count changes, lithography changes, and Enthusiast will no longer participate in new CPU benches as it will be totally out of fun. 
I'd just like to have fun playing on a Nightmare again. Not thinking - OK, two guys with LN2 or LHe will kill my efforts totally. 
That's not fun, that's just nightmare, and it's like playing a game with a cheater with auto aim.

Well all you statements completely confirms this  - you just want your own points.

Well bear in mind. I don't want to be compared with Extreme OCers. I want to fight in my own weight class. 
 You feel good that you have won with Enthusiasts in a competition with Phase or a chiller?
Wow, You're a hero than. But only in Your mind.  

If it isn't fun then you are doing it for the points which will lead to you burning out. I felt a little burned out so I picked up the cheapest 775 board and grabbed my hyper 212 cooler and am taking with me when I visit family. I am doing it to see how far I can push it with bad hardware. It won't get me points but I will learn a little bit more and I will have fun doing it. Unless you are employed to do overclocking by a company your main focus in my opinion should be fun. I bench a decent amount but don't usually post the results because if I focus on that I will be benching what is popular not what I find fun and eventually I won't find any of it fun. 

[ADVenturePO]

7 hours ago, Mythical tech said:

I love overclocking and don't do it on my main rig I actually underclock and undervolt it and use a passive cooler to reduce failure points. Water cooling comes with a risk and some people who just want to have their system to run think that water cooling is just as excessive as ln2. Price is relative, water cooling isn't much better than air in terms of actual real world performance and is quite expensive compared to a entry level air cooler 

Well, that is a statement made by an overclocker
As for me I'm using XS79 Deluxe with i7-4960X @4.7 and 2133MHz @CL10 Memory as  my main PC. Not getting BSODs, playing games, using Office, working, making videos.
 

7 hours ago, Mythical tech said:

If it isn't fun then you are doing it for the points which will lead to you burning out. I felt a little burned out so I picked up the cheapest 775 board and grabbed my hyper 212 cooler and am taking with me when I visit family. I am doing it to see how far I can push it with bad hardware. It won't get me points but I will learn a little bit more and I will have fun doing it. Unless you are employed to do overclocking by a company your main focus in my opinion should be fun. I bench a decent amount but don't usually post the results because if I focus on that I will be benching what is popular not what I find fun and eventually I won't find any of it fun.

No. If you have an access to a new hardware, it should be fun to overclock this. I've already mentioned scavenger thinking. It's your point of view. Mine is: we challenge ourselves with the new hardware on great cooling and we will see who can OC it best. Not: we have to find an old hardware....
I give a really much less duck about old hardware. I want to compete with new. You like Old Scholl. Great. I want Enthusiast League to be fighting on new hardware.
You don't believe in OC on daily basis - you problem. I made 500+ workstations in OC. Working for more than 4 years now. 
Old School is Old School. Enthusiasts should have a possibility to fight on new hardware. 

[Mythical tech]

18 minutes ago, ADVenturePO said:

Well, that is a statement made by an overclocker
As for me I'm using XS79 Deluxe with i7-4960X @4.7 and 2133MHz @CL10 Memory as  my main PC. Not getting BSODs, playing games, using Office, working, making videos.
 

No. If you have an access to a new hardware, it should be fun to overclock this. I've already mentioned scavenger thinking. It's your point of view. Mine is: we challenge ourselves with the new hardware on great cooling and we will see who can OC it best. Not: we have to find an old hardware....
I give a really much less duck about old hardware. I want to compete with new. You like Old Scholl. Great. I want Enthusiast League to be fighting on new hardware.
You don't believe in OC on daily basis - you problem. I made 500+ workstations in OC. Working for more than 4 years now. 
Old School is Old School. Enthusiasts should have a possibility to fight on new hardware. 

I don't disagree with 24/7 oc for instance I have my 2200g system pushed to 4.2 ghz but for my mail system I care more about power draw and 100% reliability than performance for running esxi and vsphere . It should be fun to overclock any hardware. For my oc club I use almost exclusively new hardware, 9900k, r5 3600 gtx 1080ti but I personally can not afford that by any means so I bench older hardware. If what you care about is points then step up to dice it can been done on the cheap and is easy to start with and if you don't want to go subzero and care about points then you will be benching a more limited range of hardware. What you want is to be compared to people using the same cooling as you and you are, that is what your league ranking is. If you care about global rankings then make a scrap chiller. I am not trying to be a tool but when it is a global database you will be compared to everyone in the database. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Mythical tech

[ozzie]

all this thread ^^^^^^^^^^^^  has been thrashed over a 100 times

[TerraRaptor]

@ADVenturePOFYI, there was (and still is) a community in Russia named COIE (club of independent enthusiasts) - although they were always a part of Russian oc forums and they were overclockers by all means they never benched "hwbot benchmarks". I.e. they were re-verifying performance results from different hw reviews, were checking performance impact of different settings in games etc. So why won't you just follow that way but come to hwbot that was always inspired by extreme guys and say guys with ambient cooling should get certain advantages? From my experience, my single stage gives me a maximum of +10% performance-wise to what I can get with air/water. LN2 may give me another 10% at the cost of much higher risk to kill hardware. Still, silicon lottery may kill the difference in cooling easily - recent results of suzuki with 4790k prove that easily (I was able to get quite the same results with random cpu @LN2 compared to his sweet cpu @ss). So why then not make a separate categories say "Cinebench R15 for those who binned 3 pcs and uses AIO" along with "Cinebench R15 for those who binned 2 pcs and uses Big Thaiphoon". In the end, any changes you ask for will be exploited and either you or another guy will blame hwbot again. 

[yosarianilives]

Real talk, can we put a ban on these types of posts? 100% of the time they're posted it becomes a toxic thread of name calling and I've yet to see one of these threads yield anything positive for the community. 

And believe me I unfortunately know a thing or two about creating toxic threads with no positive biproduct to the forum. 

[ozzie]

8 minutes ago, yosarianilives said:

 

And believe me I unfortunately know a thing or two about creating toxic threads with no positive biproduct to the forum. 

this made me giggle ?

[yosarianilives]

11 hours ago, ozzie said:

this made me giggle ?

It may be very slowly and hard to tell but I am learning 

Edited December 23, 2019 by yosarianilives

[ozzie]

6 minutes ago, yosarianilives said:

It may be very slowly and hard to tell but I am leaning 

leaning ??? towards what ?

[ozzie]

@Mythical tech

 

i live in australia in those temps and i still do ok, even on chilled/iced water, admittedly i havent done any benching for a while due to surgery recovery, there is things like air conditioning that brings the ambient in the room down to an acceptable bench temp where the condensation level is limited,  the problem here moreso than the heat is the humidity when its threatening to rain but doesnt and the heat is still there, and we do pretty good on water , chilled or dice or ln2, what sort of temps do you get there in summer ?

[macsbeach98]

I dont get what the hell you are going on about did you see the challenger comps this year they were frequency limited exactly so enthusiasts can be competitive.

Dont expect the TC or CC to be frequency limited there is already a balance now.

If you are expecting that there will be different point systems for different leagues for all different types of hardware you are expecting a bit much. This revision slimmed some things down to save on server load I dont see complicating it a whole lot more happening.

Alby said that there is going to be announcements soon I say wait and see what happens.   

[ZFeSS]

LN2 is a cheat and should be banned!

[ozzie]

^^^^^ what a load of shit .......its getting the max youre you can from the system youre benching 

[speed.fastest]

I think Enthusiast is broken by some people, almost everyone know it. Its better to minimize LN2 vs other cooling is Made LN2/LHe/Cascade league different than other cooling. The only problem how can we prove it if we use say Dry Ice? How if it use LN2 with temp lets say -90 Celcius? This is the problem. So Elite vs Everybody else league is the only solution right now i think.

[Bones]

4 hours ago, ZFeSS said:

LN2 is a cheat and should be banned!

Yeah!

The fault is all on those sorry assed, lying, cheating Extreme classed LN2 slinging bastards...... ?

 

 

 

[ADVenturePO]

Dear OCers. 
Well, people always tend to push things on their side.
Please take a look here and read the first post if you missed the point. 

7 hours ago, yosarianilives said:

Real talk, can we put a ban on these types of posts? 100% of the time they're posted it becomes a toxic thread of name calling and I've yet to see one of these threads yield anything positive for the community. 

And believe me I unfortunately know a thing or two about creating toxic threads with no positive biproduct to the forum. 

 

Damn, North Korea than is a nice place.. @yosarianilives

This thread is about GAP,  types of cooling and having fun, not frustration over the points. 
 

 

56 minutes ago, speed.fastest said:

I think Enthusiast is broken by some people, almost everyone know it. Its better to minimize LN2 vs other cooling is Made LN2/LHe/Cascade league different than other cooling. The only problem how can we prove it if we use say Dry Ice? How if it use LN2 with temp lets say -90 Celcius? This is the problem. So Elite vs Everybody else league is the only solution right now i think.

1. No. Elite vs Everyone Else will do no good - there are Extreme OCers with LN2/LHe abilities - this will just prefer them, despite using same cooling as Elite.
2. I've stated before: In the YT era it might be a good practice to fully enforce video proof. Might be non-public.
3. Using Benchmate?
4. I'm not extreme - is there a difference with -90 deg. C on Dry Ice and -90 deg. C on LN2? I truly don't know. Explain please. @speed.fastest

 

5 hours ago, ozzie said:

things like air conditioning that brings the ambient in the room down to an acceptable bench temp where the condensation level is limited

Well exactly. @Mythical tech  There are things to bring ambient down. Look who do you have from Greece. It's really hot there most of the time. 
At summer at my home I have an ambient of 30 deg. C but at winter I can go as low as 17 deg. C. 
But this is still cooling using ambient. With LN2/LHe/ Dice/ Cascade/ Phase you do not need to think about ambient as long as humidity allows top bench. 

 

This:

4 hours ago, ZFeSS said:

LN2 is a cheat and should be banned!

I'm sure was just to piss people off. Ignore. 

 

Whoa:

4 hours ago, macsbeach98 said:

I dont get what the hell you are going on about did you see the challenger comps this year they were frequency limited exactly so enthusiasts can be competitive.

Dont expect the TC or CC to be frequency limited there is already a balance now.

If you are expecting that there will be different point systems for different leagues for all different types of hardware you are expecting a bit much. This revision slimmed some things down to save on server load I don't see complicating it a whole lot more happening.

Alby said that there is going to be announcements soon I say wait and see what happens.   

1. No one on HWBOT have main points for challangers, but yes I do value this change in thinking toward competition for wider audiences.
2. frequency limited TC or CC? - Nope, I don't. Never said anything like it. But the points distribution over type of cooling with video proof - yes.
3. No, I'm just suggesting that having already split Ambient and Extreme Cooling with different demands about validation, and seeing that new lithography is all about cooling - 
it is a logic step to take and divide those types of Overclocking and also competitions.
4. Announcements - Oh... I'm thrilled, las time I dropped a lot of places down  Exactly for the gap. @macsbeach98

Don't get so angry, people.  Anger marrs beauty
 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, ADVenturePO said:

Hi OCers! 
@Massman @Leeghoofd @_mat_ @der8auer @NATA 58 @avalanche @ksateaaa23 @Mat_Agnesi

I'm an overclocker for a few years now. I worked my way up with hard and long work-just like almost anyone here on top positions.
But now I'm facing .. we Enthusiasts are facing very depriving situation: GAP.
The points are distributed in such a horrible way that Enthusiast overclocking is slowly making no sense at all.

Today I've made a lot of scores and submissions with 3970X Threadripper, despite 3 days of testing, regulating and getting such awesome results for a real life usage like rendering,
Those are scores at almost highest possible levels for LC cooling, and yed despite getting extreeme results brings dissapointment.
 

I literally will get no point for results here. 
Two days ago I had beaten almost every score for 3960x - and this points will vanish to almost none right after someone will take LN2 or LH and just try to make some scores. 
Using the gap between  Extreme and Enthusiast scores which are using totally different cooling systems is a bit of stupidity.
And now we are facing a total cut of from points - the more cores and lower lithography  the bigger gap between  Extreme an Enthusiasts.

As Roman showed - almost the same voltage and only difference in temperature - totally different silicone die behavior. 
I have a few friends who thought they will have fun - because they know a lot about OC and they're having fun with it ... they came to HWBOT,
got some nice scores... in the meaning of Enthusiast results but not points. And that was the end of them scoring on HWBOT.

So, to boost up competition on a realistic level there should be division of scores. Full division so even on a chart of the CPU there would be colums
"Benchmark Name" / WR / WR Enthusiast / Country Record / Country Enthusiast / Team Record / Personal Record.

Same in Hall of Fame and Rankings. 

There is a voltage wall and temperature wall for Enthusiasts and no experience can do anything about it.

Right now HWBOT is being more and more like a marketing tube which is of course totally misleading for unknowing buyers.
The portals are screaming about new records... and many of my clients are asking will I make a 5GHz+ TR3 AMD for them. 

The smaller lithography the bigger the gap between Extreme and Enthusiast will be.
Especially when some scores are sponsored and they are being counted for the gap with Enthusiasts overclocking. 

I can just hope You will take some actions as this two types of overclocking should be divided. 

Cheers 

Peter
 

 

Pal why link me? Real life & fucken hard work has me away from my loved Warp9 team & overclocking. So more focus

You are not typical demographic Enthusiast overclocker. Your hardware is not typical store bought parts. Server cpu cannot be bought.

OR I'd try whoop ya ass with it.

https://hwbot.org/submission/3542488_adventurepo_cinebench___r15_xeon_e5_2679_v4_3347_cb

 https://hwbot.org/submission/3542470_adventurepo_wprime___1024m_xeon_e5_2679_v4_40sec_716ms

Tell me where to buy corporate processors.  Cant find these things turbo all cores. NOT Retail

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/corporation.html

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Please not refer to yourself as enthusiast overclocker. You buy expensive parts " pay to win " OR benefit in a pc shop.

Maybe your boss bangs the secretary. While you bench x4 2080ti's for scores. Ha you other enthusiasts have that arsenal

Who buys 3960x threadripper doing 100 global point scores " that part was OK " then expects 3970x will do the same?  

Called the HWbotty points cliff. I mean come on over $5000AU to do enthusiasts scores. LN2 has smashed it to bits straight away.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There is only one guy that needed a good slap for cheating his cooling. PKBO that was done. Please don't refer to enthusiast as ice bucket cheats.

As to the reference later on volts & heat Adventure POo. That is pain & effort for your hobby. Winter time I sit here -5c doing it.

To become 1# enthusiast required a complete weekend of doing score for 80 points. Effort is reward all things in life.  

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Love you Mr Scott macsbeach Mr Paco. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. See My captains winter time. 

 

 

[Leeghoofd]

On 12/23/2019 at 1:37 AM, ADVenturePO said:

So @Mr.Scott and @Mythical tech    think it's so hard to build cascade phase change or buy a chiller than?
That's a bit pathetic. Well my dear OCers it's not. It's just like getting a totally different difficulty level. 
Enthusiasts are playing on Nightmare. Phase and Chillers are playing on Hurt me Plenty and in fact LN2 or LHe are playing on "Hey, not too rough" and after a year or two it's straight "I'm too young to die" .

First bench hard on LN2 and come back.... LN2 is way more frustrating at moments as usually all of your pretesting on air/water makes no sense under extreme cold... also you don't have hours of time to debug why the heck you aren't even close to the other guy's score.... Learning how new harware reacts to cold will already set you back 15-30L of LN2 before you might see a pattern. LN2 benching is not about pushing more volts and get it as cold as possible. The combination of silicon, voltages, logic adaptive debugging and accurate temp control are keypoints here.

Another maybe mute point: Talk to the real sponsored guys here, getting them freebies I'll tell you it autmatically brings a lot of pressure. PR people require records otherwise you will get replaced by one that can do it. Your score gets beaten, then they will require you to rebench to be on top again. Best example is Dancop who ruled the Bot but had to give up as it was hampering his social and family llife to bench each evening.

No matter what league you are in, to get top spots or lots of points you will have to cash out. You use the word invest a lot. , OC or PC hardware is really never an investment. You buy it and from the moment you walk through the shops door your "investment " already is devaluated. Buy 2 CPUs and still get thrashed, so you sell and buy more to get a cherry sample, Break all scores for your league till another guy finds a better sample.   

My point of view on OC:  I always prefer to bench for efficiency ,try to beat people at equal clocks is the game. If you have less MHz and still get similar scores you are on top. If you cant match or beat him with higher clocks you suck lol.... or he cheated?

OC has to remain fun, The goals you set will determine if you will  "invest" tons of cash, chasing them virtual points for world wide internet fame might be your thing. If you don't get the Return of Investment,  people become bitter and want changes to the system. This implies we are back at the starting line and people just should rethink the aim of their hobby....